[Owasp-board] For Discussion - Hourly contractor for wiki housekeeping

Jim Manico jim.manico at owasp.org
Thu Aug 6 22:07:36 UTC 2015


You don't have to do the work per se, but if you run into something old 
and valuable and care to shoot me an email, I'll take care of it with 
the editors team. Deleting obvious stuff that needs to go - well go for 
it - this is a wiki. Another option is to just redirect old pages to the 
project main page like so.

#redirect [[page]]

1) If the old pages should be deleted, if possible we prefer to redirect 
them so we do not lose search engine pointers to OWASP.
2) If old pages are good content that is old, we prefer to archive that 
content.
3) If pages are good but not up to date, we prefer to label them as 
"needing fixing" in some way.
4) If they are really just "junk" pages with no value and no search 
links, permanent delete sounds very reasonable.

I checked out
http://www.volunteerpower.com/articles/motivate.asp
and it looks very compelling!

I do not want to delay any of your efforts - if there is a way the 
editors team and lend support let me know.

Aloha Johanna,
Jim



On 8/6/15 11:15 AM, johanna curiel curiel wrote:
> Hi Jim
>
> Volunteering for these tasks is quite a lot of work apart from being 
> very boring and little rewarding and I understand why we don't have 
> 'brave' souls for this.
>
> The board is considering to pay someone(or even more than 1 person) 
> but I think you should also consider to create a program to provide 
> perks or bounties to volunteer's work that is actually a lot of work 
> or tedious like this? Look around how other communities does this .
> Some ideas here:
> http://www.volunteerpower.com/articles/motivate.asp
>
> I would like to help but go and label pages is way too much and I 
> think for other members that most of the time work full time (apart 
> from being a tedious and boring task)
>
> Deleting is faster and easier for me. I understand if you do not want 
> to provide us admin rights but I cannot go and sit labelling in the 
> wiki code pages , way too much work.
>
> regards
>
> Johanna
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org 
> <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>     Johanna,
>
>     What we have done so far is clean up the most popular pages that
>     return from Google search results to clean up our many "front
>     doors". I have plenty of personal scripts and tools to help this
>     process as well. Lets talk more offline around how we can help
>     your team clean up the many project pages.
>
>     A past process had project pages split into a dozen or more small
>     files which ended up being confusing and not really helpful for
>     most. I think many of these need to be cleaned up or removed...
>
>     --
>     Jim Manico
>     Global Board Member
>     OWASP Foundation
>     https://www.owasp.org <https://www.owasp.org/>
>     Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>
>     On Aug 6, 2015, at 8:19 AM, johanna curiel curiel
>     <johanna.curiel at owasp.org <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>>     Hi Jim
>>
>>     Thanks for clarifying.
>>     Do we have a process that is clear for everyone ? Like a wiki
>>     page of the 'wiki editors' with instructions? ;-)
>>
>>     I think that it was not clear for us the activity of the Wiki
>>     editors.
>>
>>     The project inventory needs a huge clean up , especially from
>>     those empty wiki project pages ;-)
>>     When you are so far for the contractor part, let us know so we
>>     can specify/label those pages we want delete actions on since we
>>     are no admins, although it's a lot of work go one by one editing
>>     and labelling information.
>>
>>     Regards
>>
>>     Johanna
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>     <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         Johanna,
>>
>>         I can help here. If you want yo change that page flag just
>>         let me know. You can also join
>>         https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors and
>>         talk to the editor group about any suggested changes....
>>
>>         Aloha!
>>         --
>>         Jim Manico
>>         Global Board Member
>>         OWASP Foundation
>>         https://www.owasp.org <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>         Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>
>>         On Aug 6, 2015, at 3:56 AM, johanna curiel curiel
>>         <johanna.curiel at owasp.org <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>>
>>         wrote:
>>
>>>         One of those FIXME is about WebScarab which I do not agree
>>>
>>>         WebScarab is still in use and should not be deleted. I would
>>>         like to classify that content as 'Low Activity' or Inactive,
>>>         especially for valuable content projects but not actively
>>>         maintained.
>>>
>>>         @Noreen: I can create categories but I cannot delete wiki
>>>         pages that have been created. You must be an
>>>         admin:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_delete_a_page
>>>
>>>         Regards
>>>
>>>         Johanna
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Noreen Whysel
>>>         <noreen.whysel at owasp.org <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>>
>>>         wrote:
>>>
>>>             Johanna,
>>>
>>>             Have you tried creating a new category? Type
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:new-category-name
>>>             and see if it lets you edit the new category page. BTW,
>>>             the wiki seems to be extremely slow today.
>>>
>>>             Are you able to view the Special Pages for Categories?
>>>             If not you may not have a high enough user setting. It
>>>             doesn't seem that all the categories are protected
>>>             pages, but I am not sure.
>>>
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:Categories
>>>
>>>             There are also category tracking functions built into
>>>             Mediawiki. None of the pages appear to be populated,
>>>             which could just mean there are no pages using these
>>>             tags or having the tracked problems.
>>>
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:TrackingCategories
>>>
>>>             Timo, There is a FIXME category tag for FIXME/delete and
>>>             another for candidate for deletion that I believe people
>>>             had been using to recommend pages to delete. You can see
>>>             all the FIXME categories on the Category:FIXME page. I
>>>             think Matt Tesauro is the only person who has deletion
>>>             rights, but he may know if there are others.
>>>
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME/delete
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:CandidateForDeletion
>>>
>>>             Noreen Whysel
>>>             Community Manager
>>>             OWASP Foundation
>>>
>>>             On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Timo Goosen
>>>             <timo.goosen at owasp.org <mailto:timo.goosen at owasp.org>>
>>>             wrote:
>>>
>>>                 If I had ability to delete useless pages off the
>>>                 wiki, then a significant cleanup would be done from
>>>                 my side.
>>>
>>>                 I would also like to hear answers to Johanna's
>>>                 questions.
>>>
>>>                 Regards.
>>>                 Timo
>>>
>>>                 On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 2:55 PM, johanna curiel
>>>                 curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org
>>>                 <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     Hi Board
>>>
>>>                     Regarding your action to hire a contractor and a
>>>                     technical editor to clean up the wiki
>>>
>>>                     As you know many of the pages are indeed project
>>>                     pages
>>>                     I have asked multiple times access to clean up
>>>                     the category section which I do not have access
>>>                     to.But no anwer has been provided clearly on how
>>>                     to do this.
>>>
>>>                     Will this potential contractor(s) handle content
>>>                     related to wiki pages projects?
>>>                     Have you though about who will manage these
>>>                     actions , since in my opinion,  an external
>>>                     party will not know which content to clean and
>>>                     which not?
>>>
>>>                     I would like to hear your thoughts about this
>>>                     and if you have consider the Project task force
>>>                     team to get involved in this action
>>>
>>>                     My biggest concern is that you hire someone that
>>>                     has no idea about the content, So how will this
>>>                     person be able to clean up something properly or
>>>                     not? And to create relevant content?
>>>
>>>                     Regards
>>>
>>>                     Johanna
>>>
>>>                     On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Jim Manico
>>>                     <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>                     <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                         +1
>>>
>>>                         --
>>>                         Jim Manico
>>>                         Global Board Member
>>>                         OWASP Foundation
>>>                         https://www.owasp.org <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>                         <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>
>>>                         On Aug 5, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Matt Konda
>>>                         <matt.konda at owasp.org
>>>                         <mailto:matt.konda at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>                         Should we aim bigger and make this part of
>>>>                         a contract tech writer's responsibilities?
>>>>
>>>>                         Matt Konda
>>>>                         @mkonda
>>>>
>>>>                         On Aug 5, 2015, at 4:32 AM, Fabio Cerullo
>>>>                         <fcerullo at owasp.org
>>>>                         <mailto:fcerullo at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>                         I support the idea on getting some
>>>>>                         professional help for the wiki. Maybe we
>>>>>                         could allocate a small budget to start with?
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Is it possible to come up with a list of
>>>>>                         pages that need maintenance based on the
>>>>>                         Wiki categorisation below?
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Fabio Cerullo
>>>>>                         Global Board Member
>>>>>                         OWASP Foundation
>>>>>                         https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA 2015
>>>>>                         <https://2015.appsecusa.org> in San Francisco!
>>>>>
>>>>>>                         On 4 Aug 2015, at 19:34, Jim Manico
>>>>>>                         <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>>>>                         <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         > But, we need a bit more focus. Let's
>>>>>>                         pay a few bucks and just get some
>>>>>>                         dedicated time on it for awhile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         +1 I think this is an important idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         --
>>>>>>                         Jim Manico
>>>>>>                         Global Board Member
>>>>>>                         OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>                         https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>                         <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>>>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>>                         <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         On Aug 4, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Michael
>>>>>>                         Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>>>>>                         <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         All great thing and I'd want to use the
>>>>>>>                         systems we have in place for sure. My
>>>>>>>                         comment/idea is that we've tried to do
>>>>>>>                         this from a volunteer angle for many
>>>>>>>                         years. Loe their effort and what they've
>>>>>>>                         done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         But, we need a bit more focus. Let's pay
>>>>>>>                         a few bucks and just get some dedicated
>>>>>>>                         time on it for awhile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         --
>>>>>>>                         Michael Coates | @_mwc
>>>>>>>                         <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>>>>>>>                         OWASP Global Board
>>>>>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>>>                         <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015 in San
>>>>>>>                         Francisco!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Noreen
>>>>>>>                         Whysel OWASP <noreen.whysel at owasp.org
>>>>>>>                         <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             Michael,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             There is a category called FIXME
>>>>>>>                             that the wiki editing project uses
>>>>>>>                             to tag content that have errors. I
>>>>>>>                             do not know how active that team is
>>>>>>>                             at the moment but we can use these
>>>>>>>                             tags to label pages with errors. It
>>>>>>>                             would be good to start with labeling
>>>>>>>                             tools we already have in place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             I would actually be happy to run an
>>>>>>>                             editathon at AppSecUSA as part of my
>>>>>>>                             chapter leader workshop. I was
>>>>>>>                             hoping to find members of the wiki
>>>>>>>                             editing team to help out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>                             Community Manager
>>>>>>>                             OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             On Aug 4, 2015, at 1:26 PM, Michael
>>>>>>>                             Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>>>>>>                             <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>>
>>>>>>>                             wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             Board,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             Added as a board meeting topic (if
>>>>>>>>                             necessary). Circulating for comment
>>>>>>>>                             via email.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             Try as we might, we just haven't
>>>>>>>>                             had enough volunteer focus on wiki
>>>>>>>>                             upkeep. Wouldn't it be great to
>>>>>>>>                             part with a few hundred dollars a
>>>>>>>>                             month and have a wiki that is
>>>>>>>>                             organized with tagging that
>>>>>>>>                             indicates "hot content" or content
>>>>>>>>                             that needs updating? That plus
>>>>>>>>                             normal clean up of dead links,
>>>>>>>>                             duplicate page flagging etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             This is a minuscule amount of funds
>>>>>>>>                             towards the overall budget and
>>>>>>>>                             would sure help with the delivery
>>>>>>>>                             of information to the world. Would
>>>>>>>>                             also help with volunteer engagement
>>>>>>>>                             since they'd know what content
>>>>>>>>                             needs attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             --
>>>>>>>>                             Michael Coates | @_mwc
>>>>>>>>                             <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>>>>>>>>                             OWASP Global Board
>>>>>>>>                             Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>>>>                             <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015 in San
>>>>>>>>                             Francisco!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>                             <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>
>

-- 
Jim Manico
Global Board Member
OWASP Foundation
https://www.owasp.org
Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!

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