[Owasp-board] Fwd: OWASP Training Model - Request to vote

Sarah Baso sarah.baso at owasp.org
Mon Mar 3 15:37:04 UTC 2014


Hi Fabio -
I don't see any issues per se except in the instance that the trainer
doesn't receive enough registrations to cover his/her travel costs.  Does
that mean OWASP is to cover that loss (which we usually do not)?  I would
think the trainer would still cover those costs....especially since we
aren't setting any limit on travel expenses. So, for example if a trainer
wanted to submit for the AppSec APAC event from Latin America, obviously
the costs of travel would be much higher than if he/she was from the APAC
region (or the country where the conference is being held).  We/OWASP
cannot make a stand alone decision on the benefit of the training from the
perspective of the individual delivering the training - they may be trying
to build their business in the region, or have other clients to meet with,
or just want to visit and trying to recoop SOME of their costs.  My concern
if OWASP is to cover is that we have no mechanism to limit the travel costs.

If the trainer will still be covering any loss in travel costs (the amount
of their travel less the amount earned in the training), I have no issues
and support this proposal.

Sarah


On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:42 AM, Fabio Cerullo <fcerullo at owasp.org> wrote:

> Tobias,
>
> Sounds good to me... only wanted to have the blessing from the Global
> Board.
>
> If everyone believes there is no need for a vote, I will follow up with
> the Ops team.
>
> @Sarah, could you please let me know your thoughts on this?
>
> Thanks
> Fabio
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Tobias <tobias.gondrom at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>>  Hi Fabio,
>>
>> like the idea, but I fail to see why the board needs to vote on this.
>> It does not change the currently existing training model and is merely an
>> conveniently added option to the existing contract.
>> I would see this in the capable hands of our ops team and their advise.
>> Have you talked with them about this yet?
>>
>> Best regards, Tobias
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 03/03/14 09:43, Fabio Cerullo wrote:
>>
>> hi there,
>>
>>  I would like to include this topic for voting today.
>>
>>  Although donating training funds is possible, and some of you are
>> already doing it, the fact to have it in writing as an optional item in the
>> contract makes it visible to ALL potential trainers in the future.
>>
>>  Any questions, please let me know.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>> Fabio
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Fabio Cerullo <fcerullo at owasp.org>
>> Date: Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:53 PM
>> Subject: OWASP Training Model - Community Vote Results
>> To: "owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org" <owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org>
>>
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>>  You could find below the poll results of the proposed changes to the
>> OWASP Training Contract.
>>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/spreadsheets/d/1oDmVQKlFQIvnfXJOnUaEG7UB5aQ_QpYbZDnA1AHZAns/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>  Based on these results, I will propose a few changes to the wording of
>> the contract at the upcoming Global Board meeting.
>>
>>  - Include an optional checkbox at the bottom of the contract that
>> states "I hereby donate my proceedings to the OWASP Foundation and/or OWASP
>> project of choice."
>>  - Include an optional checkbox at the bottom of the contract that
>> states "I only want to receive travel expenses as sole compensation for
>> delivering this training. The reimbursement limit is USD XXX (US American
>> dollars) as stipulated and agreed with the OWASP Foundation"
>>
>>  I'm looking forward to your feedback.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>
>> Fabio
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Jerry Hoff <jerry at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi team,
>>>
>>>  For the upcoming training at AppSec APAC, I simply asked Laura if my
>>> proceeds could be donated directly to the Tokyo OWASP chapter who is
>>> hosting the event, minus the printing of the books.  This was not done
>>> strictly out of altruism, I wasn't comfortable writing in my SSN in on a
>>> word document and sending it over email.
>>>
>>>  I think we should be good to go on this one - Laura took care if it
>>> easily (thank you Laura) - anyone can do this as of now! :)
>>>
>>>  Grazie,
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> Jerry Hoff
>>>  @jerryhoff
>>> jerry at owasp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Feb 19, 2014, at 1:08 PM, Fabio Cerullo <fcerullo at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Eoin,
>>>
>>>  We are not trying to make significant changes here... only remove the
>>> burden of debit/credit transactions from trainer to OWASP.
>>>
>>>  By placing a checkbox in the contract, any trainer who is willing to
>>> donate the earnings to OWASP could do so by just opting-in. Then the
>>> transaction becomes transparent and there is no debit/credit involved -
>>> 100% funds go directly to the OWASP Foundation or project of choice. I'm
>>> sure Alison will appreciate knowing this beforehand.
>>>
>>>  A different topic altogether is the request from OWASP trainers to
>>> deliver training absolutely free. I'm aware at least Jim and Simon are
>>> willing to deliver trainings at no cost during major OWASP conferences and
>>> they found some friction.
>>>
>>>  The survey is just a pulse from the OWASP community, no guarantees
>>> anything will change but when there is a will things usually happen.
>>>
>>>  Regards
>>> Fabio
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Eoin Keary <eoin.keary at owasp.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Currently there is nothing stopping trainers delivering classes for
>>>> free. Jim and myself have been doing this since 2012. We are doing it next
>>>> week in San Francisco. We have both partially self funded the trip.
>>>>
>>>>  If a trainer wants to charge and donate 100% of the fees to owasp
>>>> there is nothing to stop this also.
>>>> The 60/40 is a default setting. It encourages high quality training and
>>>> trainers but also generate revenue for the foundation.
>>>>
>>>>  So what happens after the result of this vote? Do anything really
>>>> change given all scenarios are optional.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Eoin Keary
>>>> Owasp Global Board
>>>> +353 87 977 2988 <%2B353%2087%20977%202988>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19 Feb 2014, at 14:25, Fabio Cerullo <fcerullo at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Dear all,
>>>>
>>>>  As per the current OWASP Training Model (see
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/File:Training_Instructor_Agreement.doc),
>>>> the payment schedule for OWASP major conferences is established as a 60/40%
>>>> split between OWASP/Trainer.
>>>>
>>>>  Also, the travel expenses are currently covered by the trainer. It
>>>> has been proposed a different payment schedule in which trainings are
>>>> offered for free or to only cover the expenses for the trainer and all
>>>> proceedings going to the OWASP Foundation and/or a particular project.
>>>>
>>>>  For full details about the various proposals discussed at the OWASP
>>>> Leaders mailing list, please visit:
>>>> http://lists.owasp.org/pipermail/owasp-leaders/2014-February/010869.html
>>>>
>>>>  Could you please cast your vote in the following link to answer the
>>>> question:
>>>>
>>>>  Should OWASP allow other options in addition to the current training
>>>> model?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/forms/d/1OMmIHFLm6fouHwfSLB9sA7lCwvqtB4hdE8cnUFZ4meo/viewform
>>>>
>>>>  Lines are open for the next 72 hours (until Saturday 22rd February at
>>>> 00:00GMT). After that time, votes will be counted and results announced.
>>>>
>>>>  Make your voice count!
>>>>
>>>>  Regards,
>>>> Fabio
>>>>
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owasp-board mailing listOwasp-board at lists.owasp.orghttps://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Executive Director
OWASP Foundation

sarah.baso at owasp.org
+1.312.869.2779
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