[Owasp-board] Member Nation Portal

Sarah Baso sarah.baso at owasp.org
Mon Apr 7 20:03:12 UTC 2014


Josh -
I am sorry if Kate demo'd more of the community interaction/social tools
with you and the rest of the features that I pointed out weren't the
subject of your conversation.

I am fine with exploring other social media platforms - as I explained this
was not the primary motivator for this initiative, it was an added feature
that is included... which we can turn off.

I agree with you that this platform doesn't support social media to the
ideal...and we should be putting our best face forward. Maybe NING is the
place for that, maybe not.

If you (or jim) or someone else want to take up an initiative to figure out
this piece of it, that would be great.  I am sure GK will be happy to be
involved in the conversation as well.

Sarah


On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:

> OK, now I'm really confused.  Kate spent an hour on the phone with me the
> other day showing me the forum features of the community portal.  She
> showed me how to create threads, how to post, and how she can use roles to
> determine who can see what.  The other stuff you mentioned is all fine and
> dandy, but it's not social media.  Social media is about how you interact
> with your customers/members.  Forums, blogs, chat, tweets, and interactive
> web presence.  The Salesforce Portal makes a rather lame attempt at many of
> these and that was the functionality that Kate was demonstrating for me.
> Not to force the staff to backtrack, but I'd suggest that we reconsider
> what portion of Salesforce we are using for what things.  By all means use
> it for event management, member management, fundraising, recognition, etc,
> but please please please do not move forward with the "social media"
> aspects of the tool.  Frankly, they suck.  Hard.
>
> Personally, I would like to see Jim tackle social media presence as part
> of the website revamping efforts.  Call it OWASP 2.0 or whatever.  In my
> opinion, our social presence should be the front of house for OWASP (ie.
> get involved in the community!) with all of the bells and whistles that
> social media has to offer.  On the back-end we should be linking to things
> like projects, chapters, etc.  Salesforce should be a tool in that process,
> not THE tool.  Take a look at http://myowasp2.ning.com (the new 3.0
> platform) and you'll see what I'm talking about.  The design is extremely
> flexible and it pulls in aspects of our social media presence into a single
> location.  Can we please take this Salesforce Portal forums idea out to
> pasture before it kills any social media success that we've had to date?
> It sounds like even Sarah is saying that social media is an afterthought in
> this tool and is not the primary purpose.  We should always be trying to
> put our best face forward.  To me, this is not acceptable.
>
> ~josh
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Sarah Baso <sarah.baso at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Board members -
>>
>>
>> I have attempted to put together some additional details on the scope of
>> work for the Member Nation interface and community portal which runs on the
>> salesforce platform.  Also, I tried to answer the questions (mostly from
>> Jim and Josh) , but if others have questions, please send them my way.
>>
>>
>> One preliminary matter on Alpha testing - All of the staff members, Simon
>> Bennets, and Fabio Cerullo, Colin Watson, David Hughes.  Additionally, Kate
>> did a demo/walk through with the AppSec USA 2014 Team in Denver for their
>> upcoming event registration.
>>
>>
>> Here are the links for you all to test look at where we are currently:
>>
>>
>>    - New Membership: https://myowasp.force.com/memberappregion
>>    - Portal - https://myowasp.force.com
>>
>> It is important to note that becoming a member does not automatically
>> sign a person up for the portal.
>>
>> #######  Details on the proposal, functionality, Q & A #########
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Original proposal -
>> https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/document/d/1yDTFCdmmZN3t732sqHTOFHMhQrXgUC46YbgDhGROcXM/edit?pli=1
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *What features we prioritized operationally:*
>>
>>
>>    - Membership Management
>>    - Event Registration
>>    - Central location for managing community roles and details - this is
>>    for both the staff and the community.
>>
>> o   *Staff *- we have ONE central database (Salesforce) where we can
>> track any individual or company OWASP interacts with as well as any number
>> of details about them including:
>>
>> §  *Contact details *- email address(es), phone number(s), mailing
>> address(s),
>>
>> §  *Chapter and Project Affiliation *- are they affiliated with a
>> chapter (and allocating membership funds), are they a chapter leader (or
>> past chapter leader, project leader, project contributor
>>
>> §  *Membership details and history *- paid member (including how long
>> they have been a paid member or if they were in the past but aren't now),
>> who do they work for and is that company a member or have they sponsored an
>> event,
>>
>> §  *Events, Training and Talk history *- has the individual or company
>> done training for us (which class, where, what were the course reviews, how
>> much did we charge), has the individual done a talk at any of our
>> conferences, have they attended any of our events - if so, which ones, what
>> courses did they register for.
>>
>> §  *Contracts *- has that individual signed any contracts with the
>> Foundation (and a copy of the contracts),
>>
>> §  *Email records *- have they been contacted with questions about their
>> chapter (or any email we send through Salesforce or vertical response).
>>
>> §  *Volunteerism *- we are working on integrating the metrics of
>> volunteerism, what initiatives are they involved with, what hours/work have
>> they done or signed up to do, volunteer skills or preferences.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are additional things we can track for things like projects and
>> chapters and initiatives - as groupings - how many active chapters do we
>> have, when was a chapter restarted, who are the current chapter leaders.
>> For projects, there are any numbers of metrics we can track here as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> *In addition to tracking all these details, we can run reports on all of
>> it to get more accurate metrics on everything from chapter and project
>> activity, to membership and events.  Just imagine all the fields above (and
>> anything else you can think to add) and being able to measure the details.
>> One thing that the board (understandably) has been asking for more and more
>> is metrics - so we can measure our programs and activity.  We need a place
>> to track the data and easily measure it... the wiki is a great place for
>> collaboration and creating content, but not for generating metrics on all
>> of the data above.*
>>
>>
>>
>> o   *Community *-
>>
>> §  Think about all of the data above and how it currently (or
>> historically gets collected) - it is a NIGHTMARE to keep all of it up to
>> date for a community our size.  *We want to have a place that is one
>> stop for community members to go and be able to access and update their
>> OWASP Foundation information* - update their contact details, update
>> data about their chapter or project (or participation there in), get
>> current list of the memberships affiliated with their chapter and other
>> financial details, get information about their membership (both individual
>> and corporate, including invoices/receipts), information about past events
>> they have attended and what events they can register for now.
>>
>> §  While we are an "Open" community we need to be clear with what that
>> openness means for our community members and what data is accessible to
>> others in the organization.  Through MemberNation and the Community Portal
>> (running on the salesforce platform) we will be able to have different
>> access rights based on roles for ALL of the above information- not only
>> read but edit.   Additionally, we can set up triggers for the staff so we
>> are aware when certain changes are made so we can have workflows to support
>> things like chapter leader transition.
>>
>> §  Specific to membership & events - Despite what may seem simple... there
>> are a lot of variable features that our community requires for both of
>> these items particularly as they work together.
>>
>> o   Events - We wanted a system that would dynamically be able to check
>> an individuals contact record for their current membership and type
>> (individual, corporate, academic) and provide the appropriate discounted
>> conference pricing. This is the fee for current individual members as well
>> as employees of companies that have corporate memberships (i.e. 10% for the
>> contributor level)   Additionally, a system that would allow for the
>> purchase of membership as part of a conference registration and then update
>> the contact record.  Furthermore, we have discount codes and multiple
>> currencies.
>>
>> o   Membership - not only does someone just choose to become a member
>> and pay $50, we have different membership prices based on region, contacts
>> that are the POC for multiple memberships (individual, corporate,
>> academic), the need for receipts, being able to select a chapter/project to
>> allocate to, and email notifications when the membership is expiring soon.
>>
>> §  Additionally - for those people that want to purchase a membership or
>> register for an event, but don't care about the portal or accessing their
>> details - they can do those things without the portal (like guest check
>> out).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *What it is:*
>>
>>
>>    - All the things listed above including Membership management, event
>>    management, contact management
>>    - Additionally, the system supports the following functionality -
>>    community forums (similar to google groups), a place to post ideas (and
>>    community members can vote up/down) polling, document/file repository,
>>
>>
>>
>> *Upcoming Features include (not an exhaustive list):*
>>
>>
>>    -  Donations & Fundraising
>>    -  Chapter, Project, Initiative - group details management
>>    - Centralized CFP & CFT system (for event planners and for community
>>    members to know what is open/available)
>>    - Awards & recognition
>>    - Reporting and dashboards
>>
>>
>>
>> *What it isn't (and what it isn't meant to replace)*
>>
>>
>>    - It isn't a social media or meeting platform such as NING, Facebook,
>>    or Meetup.  MANY of our community members use these (and more). We
>>    aren't hoping to replace them or replicate all of their features.  Local
>>    chapters and volunteers are going to continue to do what works best for
>>    them in their region and based on the needs of their group.
>>    - A wiki or place for collaboration
>>    - A project management platform
>>
>>
>>
>> *Support from the board - success or failure*
>>
>> If the board is saying this is stupid, doesn't work, etc - of course
>> people in the community are going to follow suit.  I hope that you all can
>> take a look, vocalize your constructive critisism and we can improve, make
>> adjustments where needed.  Ultimately, you may not love the portal, but I
>> hope you can at least respect the time and energy that we are putting into
>> a functional solution.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Questions (my answers in line)*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From Jim*
>>
>> Did we also plan to use this for application security/wiki content or for
>> OWASP project management? No, we can make some content available on
>> there (like ebooks or other documentation of policies as ANOTHER PLACE to
>> find things, but not to replace the wiki or sere as a project management
>> platform. We never discussed that when we voted on the member nation
>> proposal. Correct I though the portal was mostly going to be for
>> eCommerce streamlining, like the proposal said.  The proposal included
>> eCommerce, but also says "Some of the included solutions are:
>>  membership management, community forums, events, eCommerce, fundraising,
>> task groups, chapters, awards, volunteer management, and reporting and
>> dashboards." This doesn't mean we have to use all these features, but they
>> are included.
>>
>>
>> Has the scope grown? No Sarah, can you give the board an update on the
>> member nation portal and what it's purpose will be? Hopefully addressed
>> above... let me know if it is unclear or you have more questions. I see
>> from recent email that we plan to use it for project management? What will
>> that look like? Not project management, but contact and data management.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From Josh -*
>>
>> Last week I spent some time with Kate going through the functionality and
>> features of the Salesforce Communities and I have to say that I'm a bit
>> disgruntled.  For two years now we've had the http://my.owasp.org Ning
>> site with way more features and over 300 members and now we want to move to
>> this Salesforce portal thing?  Yes, but not meant to replace or
>> replicate NING.  There are some overlapping functionalities, but
>> obviously the needs of your chapter may be more suitable to NING (just as
>> facebook and meet up have worked for many others).Maybe if some of the
>> staff took the time to use the existing social media platform, then they
>> would realize just how much this Salesforce one sucks.  I think we are
>> operating on a different set of criteria and expectations.  And I'm
>> working on the conversion to Ning 3.0 right now which adds a ton of
>> additional features as well (http://myowasp2.ning.com).  It looks
>> better, works better, and already has some level of backing from our
>> membership.  Why would we roll out a lesser version of what we already
>> have?  Because NING doesn't support the above (and more) features. I
>> went into this with the hopes that the new platform would blow Ning out of
>> the water and I could get rid of it, but I left feeling like we should
>> still maintain the Ning platform because Salesforce just doesn't have the
>> features necessary to be usable.  Simple things like rich text formatting,
>> user messaging, photo sharing, video sharing, etc.  If we had nothing, then
>> it would work, but why anyone would prefer Salesforce over Ning is beyond
>> me.  In addition, I'll note that the "Logout" link in this Salesforce
>> portal does not exist on every page which makes it difficult for users to
>> log out and can become a security issue. In the member portal there is a
>> clear logout button next to your name/profile at the top of the left hand
>> navigation.  If you are in the community interface, if you click on your
>> name in the upper right, Log out is in the drop down similar to how it
>> works on other software. Needless to say, this is very frustrating.  I
>> am sorry you feel so frustrated, but I hope you can understand based on the
>> above the multitude of functionality we are trying to support on a global
>> scale and our inability to be everything to everyone.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> More from Josh:
>>
>> To a large extent I agree with you.  The key difference here is that we
>> are talking about replacing an existing platform with over 300 participants
>> for a brand new, sub-par, social media experience.  Again, we aren't
>> looking for something to be a great social media experience.  We can work
>> on integration of more social media features... but our primary needs were
>> related to the notes above.  We've had enough issues getting members to
>> use social media in general, why would we want to roll with anuything with
>> such limited functionality and flexibility?
>>
>>
>> ####################
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Sarah Baso
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> That's fair and my apologies.  Sarah has logged in and posted three
>>> times in May-June, 2013.  Matt Tesauro as well.  No others.
>>>
>>> ~josh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Fair comment from Sarah. When I logged into Ning yesterday, she was
>>>> one of the "featured profiles" on the main page.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW,
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/7/14, 9:02 AM, Sarah Baso wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am online reviewing all the questions now and will provide a
>>>> consolidated response as soon as I can.  Josh, FWIW, I have not only logged
>>>> into NING but made posts to it, so I don't think its fair to say none of
>>>> the staff has awareness of it.
>>>>
>>>>  Sarah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  http://myowasp.force.com
>>>>>
>>>>>  Based on your experience with Meetup, Tom, I'd be especially
>>>>> interested in what you have to say about it's features vs what Meetup has
>>>>> to offer.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Another thought on this...being that we pride ourselves on being
>>>>> open, why is the first thing people see when trying to access our social
>>>>> media platform a login page?
>>>>>
>>>>>  ~josh
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Who is in the Alpha testing group?  Would be great to have a preview
>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:25 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > Michael,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This is why I want to caution the team that it's very likely the the
>>>>>> > community will not use the social features of the new portal. I
>>>>>> could be
>>>>>> > wrong, it's just a polite warning to consider.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Now, if the SalesForce features are being used for finance
>>>>>> management (pay
>>>>>> > for events, pay for membership, etc) I'm all for it. We need a more
>>>>>> robust
>>>>>> > payment system. I just don't think new social features will stick.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > - Jim
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On 4/6/14, 8:09 PM, Josh Sokol wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > To a large extent I agree with you.  The key difference here is
>>>>>> that we are
>>>>>> > talking about replacing an existing platform with over 300
>>>>>> participants for
>>>>>> > a brand new, sub-par, social media experience.  We've had enough
>>>>>> issues
>>>>>> > getting members to use social media in general, why would we want
>>>>>> to roll
>>>>>> > with anuything with such limited functionality and flexibility?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I have followed up with Sarah and she said she will provide an
>>>>>> update
>>>>>> > tomorrow.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Apr 6, 2014 9:48 PM, "Michael Coates" <michael.coates at owasp.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I wouldn't be concerned. When evaluating many products the
>>>>>> evaluation does
>>>>>> >> not require a demo for every system. If the motivation was to
>>>>>> centralize and
>>>>>> >> integrate with sales force then I'd expect that to be a top
>>>>>> requirement and
>>>>>> >> consideration.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> But again, we should let Sarah update us.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Apr 6, 2014 7:13 PM, "Josh Sokol" <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Considering that none of them have even logged into the current
>>>>>> Ning
>>>>>> >>> social media platform, I have to assume that their evaluations
>>>>>> were based
>>>>>> >>> solely on the functionality that they wanted, rather than what
>>>>>> would benefit
>>>>>> >>> the OWASP community as a whole.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> ~josh
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Michael Coates <
>>>>>> michael.coates at owasp.org>
>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> I know there is a ton of integration into our existing sales
>>>>>> force data
>>>>>> >>>> and many other benefits when Sarah and team evaluated. I'll wait
>>>>>> for Sarah's
>>>>>> >>>> update and thoughts.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> On Apr 6, 2014 4:35 PM, "Josh Sokol" <josh.sokol at owasp.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Last week I spent some time with Kate going through the
>>>>>> functionality
>>>>>> >>>>> and features of the Salesforce Communities and I have to say
>>>>>> that I'm a bit
>>>>>> >>>>> disgruntled.  For two years now we've had the
>>>>>> http://my.owasp.org Ning site
>>>>>> >>>>> with way more features and over 300 members and now we want to
>>>>>> move to this
>>>>>> >>>>> Salesforce portal thing?  Maybe if some of the staff took the
>>>>>> time to use
>>>>>> >>>>> the existing social media platform, then they would realize
>>>>>> just how much
>>>>>> >>>>> this Salesforce one sucks.  And I'm working on the conversion
>>>>>> to Ning 3.0
>>>>>> >>>>> right now which adds a ton of additional features as well
>>>>>> >>>>> (http://myowasp2.ning.com).  It looks better, works better,
>>>>>> and already has
>>>>>> >>>>> some level of backing from our membership.  Why would we roll
>>>>>> out a lesser
>>>>>> >>>>> version of what we already have?  I went into this with the
>>>>>> hopes that the
>>>>>> >>>>> new platform would blow Ning out of the water and I could get
>>>>>> rid of it, but
>>>>>> >>>>> I left feeling like we should still maintain the Ning platform
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> >>>>> Salesforce just doesn't have the features necessary to be
>>>>>> usable.  Simple
>>>>>> >>>>> things like rich text formatting, user messaging, photo
>>>>>> sharing, video
>>>>>> >>>>> sharing, etc.  If we had nothing, then it would work, but why
>>>>>> anyone would
>>>>>> >>>>> prefer Salesforce over Ning is beyond me.  In addition, I'll
>>>>>> note that the
>>>>>> >>>>> "Logout" link in this Salesforce portal does not exist on every
>>>>>> page which
>>>>>> >>>>> makes it difficult for users to log out and can become a
>>>>>> security issue.
>>>>>> >>>>> Needless to say, this is very frustrating.
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> ~josh
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Jim Manico <
>>>>>> jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Sarah/Michael,
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> The original proposal for the member nation portal discussed
>>>>>> that it
>>>>>> >>>>>> would manage "event types, memberships, and donations as well
>>>>>> as an
>>>>>> >>>>>> integrated eCommerce solution". This is awesome. I think will
>>>>>> be a great
>>>>>> >>>>>> thing for the community and staff.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/document/d/1yDTFCdmmZN3t732sqHTOFHMhQrXgUC46YbgDhGROcXM/edit?pli=1
>>>>>> >>>>>> Did we also plan to use this for application security/wiki
>>>>>> content or
>>>>>> >>>>>> for OWASP project management? We never discussed that when we
>>>>>> voted on the
>>>>>> >>>>>> member nation proposal. I though the portal was mostly going
>>>>>> to be for
>>>>>> >>>>>> eCommerce streamlining, like the proposal said.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Has the scope grown? Sarah, can you give the board an update
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> >>>>>> member nation portal and what it's purpose will be? I see from
>>>>>> recent email
>>>>>> >>>>>> that we plan to use it for project management? What will that
>>>>>> look like?
>>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks all, Jim
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>> >>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>> >>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>> >>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>> >>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>> > Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>> > https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>  Executive Director
>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>
>>>>  sarah.baso at owasp.org
>>>> +1.312.869.2779
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Owasp-board mailing listOwasp-board at lists.owasp.orghttps://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Executive Director
>> OWASP Foundation
>>
>> sarah.baso at owasp.org
>> +1.312.869.2779
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owasp-board mailing list
>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>
>>
>


-- 
Executive Director
OWASP Foundation

sarah.baso at owasp.org
+1.312.869.2779
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