[Owasp-board] 2014 Board Meeting Dates

Jim Manico jim.manico at owasp.org
Wed Dec 18 06:35:40 UTC 2013


> Personally, I like both: shorter more frequent meetings and 1-2 long
> meetings during the AppSecs in US and EU. I have hesitations with long
> (aka 4hours+) meetings, where everybody is only on the phone.

Works for me!

> I also like Eoin's idea of 2 3hr meetings (1 weekday, 1 weekend)
> Maybe we can find a good mix?
> E.g. let's say 3 meetings of 2-3 hours every 2 months in the first half,
> then a long meeting during AppSecEU, then if need be one 2-3 hr meeting,
> then long meeting at AppSecUS, then one or two 2-3hr meetings before
> year-end.

This works for me, too. I like the variety.

- Jim


> 
> Just my 5cents, Tobias
> 
> 
> 
> On 17/12/13 22:44, Michael Coates wrote:
>> I understand. So I see two items:
>>
>> 1. Scheduling that works best for the board
>> 2. Length and frequency of the meetings
>>
>> Everyone agrees we should work together on item #1 and will do so with
>> a doodle when the time comes. However, scheduling is based upon our
>> approach in item #2.
>>
>> If I'm understanding correctly Josh is asking that we revisit item #2.
>> For many years we held monthly 1-2 hr meetings. The last vote was to
>> move to quarterly 6 hr meetings based on our experiences and value
>> with the longer spots. I'm hesitant to reopen an item we've just
>> recently agreed upon, but there's certainly no harm in discussion and
>> adjusting if we have new items to consider.
>>
>> Does anyone have comments, concerns, or suggestions on the length and
>> frequency of the meetings?
>> Eoin -  voiced his opinions in support of meetings outside of business
>> hours and also offered another suggestion of 2 meetings per quarter, 3
>> hrs each. One on a weekend and one on a weekday.
>> Michael - I definitely think the monthly meeting had less value then
>> the long meetings. My first preference is the quarterly 6 hour
>> meeting. I'm also open to Eoin's idea of 2 3 hr meetings - 1 weekday,
>> 1 weekend.
>>
>> Others?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Coates
>> Chair, Global Board
>> OWASP
>> @_mwc
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org
>> <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     I'm not sure you understand.  I'm not proposing an alternative. 
>>     I'm proposing that we re-evaluate what works best for the Board. 
>>     If I proposed an alternative, it would be based on what is best
>>     for me exclusively and ignores what works for others.  Maybe we
>>     can put together a Doodle with some pre-defined two-hour time
>>     blocks and see if we can find something that works well for everyone.
>>
>>     For example, Fridays 12 PM CST would work just fine for me and
>>     would be 6 PM for Eoin in Dublin (after billable hours) and Fabio
>>     and noon in Hong Kong for Tobias.  Would that work?
>>
>>     ~josh
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Michael Coates
>>     <michael.coates at owasp.org <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         I'm on board with finding something that works for all.
>>
>>         What alternative would you like to propose for consideration
>>         and vote?
>>
>>         Currently our approach is to find 4 dates where we have 6 hour
>>         board meetings. The goal is to attach these to in person
>>         events when possible (AppSec conferences) since there is value
>>         in having people together in person for the board meeting.
>>         When not possible we are aiming for Saturdays.
>>
>>         Would you like to propose an alternative for a vote or are you
>>         good working through the above process to find 4 dates that
>>         work for everyone?
>>
>>         Thanks,
>>         Michael
>>
>>
>>         --
>>         Michael Coates
>>         Chair, Global Board
>>         OWASP
>>         @_mwc
>>
>>
>>
>>         On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Josh Sokol
>>         <josh.sokol at owasp.org <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>             Michael,
>>
>>             I understand the requirement and am not debating it nor
>>             the merits of having regular meetings.  In fact, my cause
>>             for concern here is to ensure that everyone (including
>>             myself) is able to meet this requirement.  But holding the
>>             new Board accountable to the previous Board's scheduling
>>             desires does not seem like the appropriate way to ensure
>>             this.  Hence, my request to re-organize based on the
>>             collective needs and desires of all of the Board members. 
>>             I'm sure that your unanimous vote was appropriate for
>>             those who served before, but it is irrelevant for the new
>>             Board.  I'm not sure what the issue is with me requesting
>>             a new vote on the dates that work best for everyone.  This
>>             seems like a fairly simple and benign request to ensure
>>             that everyone can participate to their fullest extent and
>>             by shooting it down it feels like the needs and desires of
>>             the new Board members are being subjugated by those of the
>>             old Board members.  If we are all truly equals here, then
>>             trying to find a schedule that works toward everyone's
>>             best interest shouldn't be an issue.  Simply put, I had no
>>             say in the Board schedule previously, but would like to be
>>             able to have a voice in the one that I am required by the
>>             Bylaws to uphold. 
>>
>>             ~josh
>>
>>
>>             On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Michael Coates
>>             <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>             <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>                 The attendance requirements are in the bylaws and have
>>                 been there for quite some time (i.e. before the move
>>                 to 4 quarterly meetings). There are many items in the
>>                 bylaws determined by previous boards that apply to all
>>                 of us
>>                 Please be sure to be aware of all of these
>>                 responsibilities in your role.
>>
>>                 The purpose of discussing the dates now is so we can
>>                 find dates that allow everyone to attend. With our
>>                 advanced planning we can all plan to attend all 4
>>                 events and in the event of an emergency we'll still
>>                 make 3 of the 4.
>>
>>                 I'll leave it to others if they want to hold a new
>>                 vote on an issue we just voted in a few weeks back. No
>>                 preference from me here. My personal view is the
>>                 unanimous vote was based on a good plan and feedback
>>                 from many board meetings over many years.
>>
>>                 -Michael
>>
>>
>>                 --
>>                 Michael Coates
>>                 Chair, Global Board
>>                 OWASP
>>                 @_mwc
>>
>>
>>
>>                 On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Josh Sokol
>>                 <josh.sokol at owasp.org <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>>
>>                 wrote:
>>
>>                     I have requested access to the document.  Please
>>                     approve.
>>
>>                     I strongly disagree with your recommendation.  It
>>                     is based on a vote that took place when 3 out of 7
>>                     of the Board members weren't even able to
>>                     participate.  That's not even a quorum amongst the
>>                     current Board.  I believe that the dates should be
>>                     decided as a group with the participation of the
>>                     full group of Board members who will be subject to
>>                     the dates.  It is unfair to enforce a 3/4
>>                     attendance policy based on dates and days that
>>                     were not agreed to in advance.  With each new
>>                     Board, we should be re-evaluating several many
>>                     factors to ensure that our selected dates and
>>                     times are good for everybody:
>>
>>                     1) The day of the week.
>>                     2) The time of the day.
>>                     3) The duration of the meeting.
>>
>>                     If we can't get a quorum agreeing to these
>>                     factors, then there is no point in having a
>>                     meeting as nothing can be voted on.
>>
>>                     ~josh
>>
>>
>>
>>                     On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Michael Coates
>>                     <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>                     <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>                         Board + Sarah,
>>
>>                         To facilitate suggested times can you help me
>>                         complete the following?
>>
>>                         This page has everyone's primary timezone and
>>                         which appsec events they're attending.
>>                         https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/document/d/1zFDK7FYmk1ZSqjiJImxLrfX36xtaHXOsq67IwT2iq3w/edit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                         --
>>                         Michael Coates
>>                         Chair, Global Board
>>                         OWASP
>>                         @_mwc
>>
>>
>>
>>                         On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Michael
>>                         Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>                         <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>                             Unless we have a large group that wants to
>>                             dramatically change our approach I
>>                             recommend we stay with our unanimous vote
>>                             from the board meeting. I recognize that
>>                             people have other things going on in life,
>>                             we all do, and the decision to volunteer
>>                             time towards an OWASP board role is no
>>                             small commitment. The goal of scheduling
>>                             the meetings for all of 2014 is so we can
>>                             plan and accommodate these important meetings.
>>
>>                             I'll start a doodle with several options
>>                             for us to evaluate. We'll need to agree on
>>                             dates that can accommodate everyone with
>>                             the understanding that attendance (in
>>                             person or virtual) is required at 3 of 4
>>                             meetings.
>>
>>                             -Michael
>>
>>
>>                             --
>>                             Michael Coates
>>                             Chair, Global Board
>>                             OWASP
>>                             @_mwc
>>
>>
>>
>>                             On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 5:24 AM, Eoin
>>                             <eoinkeary at gmail.com
>>                             <mailto:eoinkeary at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                                 Could we do two 3h meetings a quarter?
>>                                 1 on weekends and 1 during the working
>>                                 week....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                 On 17 December 2013 12:55, Josh Sokol
>>                                 <josh.sokol at owasp.org
>>                                 <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>                                     Sure.  If you were always 100%
>>                                     booked it could.  Likewise, it
>>                                     will always take that time away
>>                                     from my family and force me to
>>                                     cancel recurring lessons for my
>>                                     kids that I've already got
>>                                     planned.  I've got two days a week
>>                                     to spend with my family.  You've
>>                                     got 5 days to work.  Regardless,
>>                                     I'm willing to compromise, but
>>                                     will not do two 6hr Sat meetings. 
>>                                     One would be hard enough to explain.
>>
>>                                     ~josh
>>
>>                                     On Dec 17, 2013 2:18 AM, "Eoin
>>                                     Keary" <eoinkeary at gmail.com
>>                                     <mailto:eoinkeary at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                                         I can't do 6hr meets during
>>                                         working week.
>>                                         I have bills to pay. That
>>                                         could cost me circa $1200 to
>>                                         do the meeting.
>>
>>
>>                                         Eoin Keary
>>                                         Owasp Global Board
>>                                         +353 87 977 2988
>>                                         <tel:%2B353%2087%20977%202988>
>>
>>
>>                                         On 17 Dec 2013, at 02:12, Josh
>>                                         Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org
>>                                         <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>>
>>                                         wrote:
>>
>>>                                         Seems kinda crappy that the
>>>                                         old board decides the
>>>                                         duration and days that the
>>>                                         new board will meet.  I'd
>>>                                         like to propose a new vote
>>>                                         amongst the new board in
>>>                                         order to determine whether
>>>                                         this is still the most
>>>                                         convenient for everyone.
>>>
>>>                                         Personally, I have no issue
>>>                                         with 6 hr meetings if its
>>>                                         during the work week.  I also
>>>                                         have no issue with shorter
>>>                                         meetings if they are on the
>>>                                         weekend.  I take issue with
>>>                                         the combination as it takes
>>>                                         significant time away from my
>>>                                         family and I already have
>>>                                         things scheduled for my
>>>                                         children on Saturdays. 
>>>
>>>                                         On Dec 16, 2013 6:28 PM,
>>>                                         "Michael Coates"
>>>                                         <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>>                                         <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>>
>>>                                         wrote:
>>>
>>>                                             It's not just me. This
>>>                                             was voted on during the
>>>                                             board meeting at Europe.
>>>                                             6 hr meetings provide
>>>                                             time to get stuff done.
>>>                                             The consensus was that
>>>                                             each year the board would
>>>                                             plan the events for the
>>>                                             following year. They
>>>                                             would be on Saturdays or
>>>                                             in some cases week days
>>>                                             to align with AppSec events.
>>>
>>>                                             Vote was aug 19 -
>>>                                             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Votes
>>>
>>>
>>>                                             Regarding the selected
>>>                                             dates, 3 out of 4 are
>>>                                             good, but I can't do the
>>>                                             June 27 date.
>>>
>>>
>>>                                             -Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>                                             --
>>>                                             Michael Coates
>>>                                             Chair, Global Board
>>>                                             OWASP
>>>                                             @_mwc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                                             On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at
>>>                                             10:07 AM, Josh Sokol
>>>                                             <josh.sokol at owasp.org
>>>                                             <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>>
>>>                                             wrote:
>>>
>>>                                                 If we were only doing
>>>                                                 1-2 hours once a
>>>                                                 month, then Saturday
>>>                                                 would probably be
>>>                                                 fine, but since it
>>>                                                 seemed that Michael
>>>                                                 really wanted to go
>>>                                                 for longer meetings
>>>                                                 once a quarter, I
>>>                                                 would much prefer to
>>>                                                 do these during the
>>>                                                 week where it does
>>>                                                 not impact the
>>>                                                 limited amount of
>>>                                                 time I have with my
>>>                                                 family.
>>>
>>>                                                 ~josh
>>>
>>>
>>>                                                 On Mon, Dec 16, 2013
>>>                                                 at 12:03 PM, Sarah
>>>                                                 Baso
>>>                                                 <sarah.baso at owasp.org
>>>                                                 <mailto:sarah.baso at owasp.org>>
>>>                                                 wrote:
>>>
>>>                                                     Board member -
>>>
>>>                                                     *No meeting next
>>>                                                     monday (23rd), I
>>>                                                     will update the
>>>                                                     meeting invite. *
>>>
>>>                                                     We do need to
>>>                                                     finalize the
>>>                                                     meeting dates for
>>>                                                     next year to get
>>>                                                     them on the
>>>                                                     calendar so
>>>                                                     everyone can plan
>>>                                                     accordingly:
>>>
>>>                                                     Here were my
>>>                                                     suggestions to
>>>                                                     get the ball rolling:
>>>
>>>                                                      *
>>>
>>>                                                         Saturday
>>>                                                         April 12 or
>>>                                                         19 (after end
>>>                                                         of Q1 with
>>>                                                         sufficient
>>>                                                         time for
>>>                                                         Alison to
>>>                                                         reconcile
>>>                                                         reports) We
>>>                                                         also should
>>>                                                         have a wrap
>>>                                                         up of 2013
>>>                                                         finances by
>>>                                                         then for review
>>>
>>>                                                      *
>>>
>>>                                                         Friday June
>>>                                                         27 in person
>>>                                                         in Cambridge
>>>                                                         (conference
>>>                                                         is Monday -
>>>                                                         Thursday June
>>>                                                         23-26th)
>>>
>>>                                                      *
>>>
>>>                                                         Monday
>>>                                                         September
>>>                                                         15th in
>>>                                                         person in
>>>                                                         Denver
>>>                                                         (conference
>>>                                                         is Tuesday -
>>>                                                         Friday Sept
>>>                                                         16-19th)
>>>
>>>                                                      *
>>>
>>>                                                         Saturday Nov
>>>                                                         8 or 15 - new
>>>                                                         board members
>>>                                                         are elected
>>>                                                         and planning
>>>                                                         for 2015.
>>>
>>>
>>>                                                     Thoughts?
>>>                                                     Sarah
>>>
>>>                                                     -- 
>>>                                                     Executive Director
>>>                                                     OWASP Foundation
>>>
>>>                                                     sarah.baso at owasp.org
>>>                                                     <mailto:sarah.baso at owasp.org>
>>>                                                     +1.312.869.2779
>>>                                                     <tel:%2B1.312.869.2779>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                 -- 
>>                                 Eoin Keary
>>                                 OWASP Global Board Member
>>                                 OWASP Code Review Guide Lead Author
>>
>>                                 https://twitter.com/EoinKeary
>>
>>                                 http://twitter.com/BCCRiskAdvisory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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