[Owasp-board] 2014 Board Meeting Dates

Tobias tobias.gondrom at owasp.org
Tue Dec 17 22:56:59 UTC 2013


Personally, I like both: shorter more frequent meetings and 1-2 long
meetings during the AppSecs in US and EU. I have hesitations with long
(aka 4hours+) meetings, where everybody is only on the phone.
I also like Eoin's idea of 2 3hr meetings (1 weekday, 1 weekend)
Maybe we can find a good mix?
E.g. let's say 3 meetings of 2-3 hours every 2 months in the first half,
then a long meeting during AppSecEU, then if need be one 2-3 hr meeting,
then long meeting at AppSecUS, then one or two 2-3hr meetings before
year-end.

Just my 5cents, Tobias



On 17/12/13 22:44, Michael Coates wrote:
> I understand. So I see two items:
>
> 1. Scheduling that works best for the board
> 2. Length and frequency of the meetings
>
> Everyone agrees we should work together on item #1 and will do so with
> a doodle when the time comes. However, scheduling is based upon our
> approach in item #2.
>
> If I'm understanding correctly Josh is asking that we revisit item #2.
> For many years we held monthly 1-2 hr meetings. The last vote was to
> move to quarterly 6 hr meetings based on our experiences and value
> with the longer spots. I'm hesitant to reopen an item we've just
> recently agreed upon, but there's certainly no harm in discussion and
> adjusting if we have new items to consider.
>
> Does anyone have comments, concerns, or suggestions on the length and
> frequency of the meetings?
> Eoin -  voiced his opinions in support of meetings outside of business
> hours and also offered another suggestion of 2 meetings per quarter, 3
> hrs each. One on a weekend and one on a weekday.
> Michael - I definitely think the monthly meeting had less value then
> the long meetings. My first preference is the quarterly 6 hour
> meeting. I'm also open to Eoin's idea of 2 3 hr meetings - 1 weekday,
> 1 weekend.
>
> Others?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Coates
> Chair, Global Board
> OWASP
> @_mwc
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org
> <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>     I'm not sure you understand.  I'm not proposing an alternative. 
>     I'm proposing that we re-evaluate what works best for the Board. 
>     If I proposed an alternative, it would be based on what is best
>     for me exclusively and ignores what works for others.  Maybe we
>     can put together a Doodle with some pre-defined two-hour time
>     blocks and see if we can find something that works well for everyone.
>
>     For example, Fridays 12 PM CST would work just fine for me and
>     would be 6 PM for Eoin in Dublin (after billable hours) and Fabio
>     and noon in Hong Kong for Tobias.  Would that work?
>
>     ~josh
>
>
>     On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Michael Coates
>     <michael.coates at owasp.org <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>         I'm on board with finding something that works for all.
>
>         What alternative would you like to propose for consideration
>         and vote?
>
>         Currently our approach is to find 4 dates where we have 6 hour
>         board meetings. The goal is to attach these to in person
>         events when possible (AppSec conferences) since there is value
>         in having people together in person for the board meeting.
>         When not possible we are aiming for Saturdays.
>
>         Would you like to propose an alternative for a vote or are you
>         good working through the above process to find 4 dates that
>         work for everyone?
>
>         Thanks,
>         Michael
>
>
>         --
>         Michael Coates
>         Chair, Global Board
>         OWASP
>         @_mwc
>
>
>
>         On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Josh Sokol
>         <josh.sokol at owasp.org <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>             Michael,
>
>             I understand the requirement and am not debating it nor
>             the merits of having regular meetings.  In fact, my cause
>             for concern here is to ensure that everyone (including
>             myself) is able to meet this requirement.  But holding the
>             new Board accountable to the previous Board's scheduling
>             desires does not seem like the appropriate way to ensure
>             this.  Hence, my request to re-organize based on the
>             collective needs and desires of all of the Board members. 
>             I'm sure that your unanimous vote was appropriate for
>             those who served before, but it is irrelevant for the new
>             Board.  I'm not sure what the issue is with me requesting
>             a new vote on the dates that work best for everyone.  This
>             seems like a fairly simple and benign request to ensure
>             that everyone can participate to their fullest extent and
>             by shooting it down it feels like the needs and desires of
>             the new Board members are being subjugated by those of the
>             old Board members.  If we are all truly equals here, then
>             trying to find a schedule that works toward everyone's
>             best interest shouldn't be an issue.  Simply put, I had no
>             say in the Board schedule previously, but would like to be
>             able to have a voice in the one that I am required by the
>             Bylaws to uphold. 
>
>             ~josh
>
>
>             On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Michael Coates
>             <michael.coates at owasp.org
>             <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>                 The attendance requirements are in the bylaws and have
>                 been there for quite some time (i.e. before the move
>                 to 4 quarterly meetings). There are many items in the
>                 bylaws determined by previous boards that apply to all
>                 of us
>                 Please be sure to be aware of all of these
>                 responsibilities in your role.
>
>                 The purpose of discussing the dates now is so we can
>                 find dates that allow everyone to attend. With our
>                 advanced planning we can all plan to attend all 4
>                 events and in the event of an emergency we'll still
>                 make 3 of the 4.
>
>                 I'll leave it to others if they want to hold a new
>                 vote on an issue we just voted in a few weeks back. No
>                 preference from me here. My personal view is the
>                 unanimous vote was based on a good plan and feedback
>                 from many board meetings over many years.
>
>                 -Michael
>
>
>                 --
>                 Michael Coates
>                 Chair, Global Board
>                 OWASP
>                 @_mwc
>
>
>
>                 On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Josh Sokol
>                 <josh.sokol at owasp.org <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>>
>                 wrote:
>
>                     I have requested access to the document.  Please
>                     approve.
>
>                     I strongly disagree with your recommendation.  It
>                     is based on a vote that took place when 3 out of 7
>                     of the Board members weren't even able to
>                     participate.  That's not even a quorum amongst the
>                     current Board.  I believe that the dates should be
>                     decided as a group with the participation of the
>                     full group of Board members who will be subject to
>                     the dates.  It is unfair to enforce a 3/4
>                     attendance policy based on dates and days that
>                     were not agreed to in advance.  With each new
>                     Board, we should be re-evaluating several many
>                     factors to ensure that our selected dates and
>                     times are good for everybody:
>
>                     1) The day of the week.
>                     2) The time of the day.
>                     3) The duration of the meeting.
>
>                     If we can't get a quorum agreeing to these
>                     factors, then there is no point in having a
>                     meeting as nothing can be voted on.
>
>                     ~josh
>
>
>
>                     On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Michael Coates
>                     <michael.coates at owasp.org
>                     <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>                         Board + Sarah,
>
>                         To facilitate suggested times can you help me
>                         complete the following?
>
>                         This page has everyone's primary timezone and
>                         which appsec events they're attending.
>                         https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/document/d/1zFDK7FYmk1ZSqjiJImxLrfX36xtaHXOsq67IwT2iq3w/edit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                         --
>                         Michael Coates
>                         Chair, Global Board
>                         OWASP
>                         @_mwc
>
>
>
>                         On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Michael
>                         Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org
>                         <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>                             Unless we have a large group that wants to
>                             dramatically change our approach I
>                             recommend we stay with our unanimous vote
>                             from the board meeting. I recognize that
>                             people have other things going on in life,
>                             we all do, and the decision to volunteer
>                             time towards an OWASP board role is no
>                             small commitment. The goal of scheduling
>                             the meetings for all of 2014 is so we can
>                             plan and accommodate these important meetings.
>
>                             I'll start a doodle with several options
>                             for us to evaluate. We'll need to agree on
>                             dates that can accommodate everyone with
>                             the understanding that attendance (in
>                             person or virtual) is required at 3 of 4
>                             meetings.
>
>                             -Michael
>
>
>                             --
>                             Michael Coates
>                             Chair, Global Board
>                             OWASP
>                             @_mwc
>
>
>
>                             On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 5:24 AM, Eoin
>                             <eoinkeary at gmail.com
>                             <mailto:eoinkeary at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                                 Could we do two 3h meetings a quarter?
>                                 1 on weekends and 1 during the working
>                                 week....
>
>
>
>
>                                 On 17 December 2013 12:55, Josh Sokol
>                                 <josh.sokol at owasp.org
>                                 <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>                                     Sure.  If you were always 100%
>                                     booked it could.  Likewise, it
>                                     will always take that time away
>                                     from my family and force me to
>                                     cancel recurring lessons for my
>                                     kids that I've already got
>                                     planned.  I've got two days a week
>                                     to spend with my family.  You've
>                                     got 5 days to work.  Regardless,
>                                     I'm willing to compromise, but
>                                     will not do two 6hr Sat meetings. 
>                                     One would be hard enough to explain.
>
>                                     ~josh
>
>                                     On Dec 17, 2013 2:18 AM, "Eoin
>                                     Keary" <eoinkeary at gmail.com
>                                     <mailto:eoinkeary at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                                         I can't do 6hr meets during
>                                         working week.
>                                         I have bills to pay. That
>                                         could cost me circa $1200 to
>                                         do the meeting.
>
>
>                                         Eoin Keary
>                                         Owasp Global Board
>                                         +353 87 977 2988
>                                         <tel:%2B353%2087%20977%202988>
>
>
>                                         On 17 Dec 2013, at 02:12, Josh
>                                         Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org
>                                         <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>>
>                                         wrote:
>
>>                                         Seems kinda crappy that the
>>                                         old board decides the
>>                                         duration and days that the
>>                                         new board will meet.  I'd
>>                                         like to propose a new vote
>>                                         amongst the new board in
>>                                         order to determine whether
>>                                         this is still the most
>>                                         convenient for everyone.
>>
>>                                         Personally, I have no issue
>>                                         with 6 hr meetings if its
>>                                         during the work week.  I also
>>                                         have no issue with shorter
>>                                         meetings if they are on the
>>                                         weekend.  I take issue with
>>                                         the combination as it takes
>>                                         significant time away from my
>>                                         family and I already have
>>                                         things scheduled for my
>>                                         children on Saturdays. 
>>
>>                                         On Dec 16, 2013 6:28 PM,
>>                                         "Michael Coates"
>>                                         <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>                                         <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>>
>>                                         wrote:
>>
>>                                             It's not just me. This
>>                                             was voted on during the
>>                                             board meeting at Europe.
>>                                             6 hr meetings provide
>>                                             time to get stuff done.
>>                                             The consensus was that
>>                                             each year the board would
>>                                             plan the events for the
>>                                             following year. They
>>                                             would be on Saturdays or
>>                                             in some cases week days
>>                                             to align with AppSec events.
>>
>>                                             Vote was aug 19 -
>>                                             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Votes
>>
>>
>>                                             Regarding the selected
>>                                             dates, 3 out of 4 are
>>                                             good, but I can't do the
>>                                             June 27 date.
>>
>>
>>                                             -Michael
>>
>>
>>                                             --
>>                                             Michael Coates
>>                                             Chair, Global Board
>>                                             OWASP
>>                                             @_mwc
>>
>>
>>
>>                                             On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at
>>                                             10:07 AM, Josh Sokol
>>                                             <josh.sokol at owasp.org
>>                                             <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>>
>>                                             wrote:
>>
>>                                                 If we were only doing
>>                                                 1-2 hours once a
>>                                                 month, then Saturday
>>                                                 would probably be
>>                                                 fine, but since it
>>                                                 seemed that Michael
>>                                                 really wanted to go
>>                                                 for longer meetings
>>                                                 once a quarter, I
>>                                                 would much prefer to
>>                                                 do these during the
>>                                                 week where it does
>>                                                 not impact the
>>                                                 limited amount of
>>                                                 time I have with my
>>                                                 family.
>>
>>                                                 ~josh
>>
>>
>>                                                 On Mon, Dec 16, 2013
>>                                                 at 12:03 PM, Sarah
>>                                                 Baso
>>                                                 <sarah.baso at owasp.org
>>                                                 <mailto:sarah.baso at owasp.org>>
>>                                                 wrote:
>>
>>                                                     Board member -
>>
>>                                                     *No meeting next
>>                                                     monday (23rd), I
>>                                                     will update the
>>                                                     meeting invite. *
>>
>>                                                     We do need to
>>                                                     finalize the
>>                                                     meeting dates for
>>                                                     next year to get
>>                                                     them on the
>>                                                     calendar so
>>                                                     everyone can plan
>>                                                     accordingly:
>>
>>                                                     Here were my
>>                                                     suggestions to
>>                                                     get the ball rolling:
>>
>>                                                      *
>>
>>                                                         Saturday
>>                                                         April 12 or
>>                                                         19 (after end
>>                                                         of Q1 with
>>                                                         sufficient
>>                                                         time for
>>                                                         Alison to
>>                                                         reconcile
>>                                                         reports) We
>>                                                         also should
>>                                                         have a wrap
>>                                                         up of 2013
>>                                                         finances by
>>                                                         then for review
>>
>>                                                      *
>>
>>                                                         Friday June
>>                                                         27 in person
>>                                                         in Cambridge
>>                                                         (conference
>>                                                         is Monday -
>>                                                         Thursday June
>>                                                         23-26th)
>>
>>                                                      *
>>
>>                                                         Monday
>>                                                         September
>>                                                         15th in
>>                                                         person in
>>                                                         Denver
>>                                                         (conference
>>                                                         is Tuesday -
>>                                                         Friday Sept
>>                                                         16-19th)
>>
>>                                                      *
>>
>>                                                         Saturday Nov
>>                                                         8 or 15 - new
>>                                                         board members
>>                                                         are elected
>>                                                         and planning
>>                                                         for 2015.
>>
>>
>>                                                     Thoughts?
>>                                                     Sarah
>>
>>                                                     -- 
>>                                                     Executive Director
>>                                                     OWASP Foundation
>>
>>                                                     sarah.baso at owasp.org
>>                                                     <mailto:sarah.baso at owasp.org>
>>                                                     +1.312.869.2779
>>                                                     <tel:%2B1.312.869.2779>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                                     _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
>                                 -- 
>                                 Eoin Keary
>                                 OWASP Global Board Member
>                                 OWASP Code Review Guide Lead Author
>
>                                 https://twitter.com/EoinKeary
>
>                                 http://twitter.com/BCCRiskAdvisory
>
>
>
>
>
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