[Owasp-board] 2014 Board Meeting Dates

Josh Sokol josh.sokol at owasp.org
Tue Dec 17 22:12:42 UTC 2013


I'm not sure you understand.  I'm not proposing an alternative.  I'm
proposing that we re-evaluate what works best for the Board.  If I proposed
an alternative, it would be based on what is best for me exclusively and
ignores what works for others.  Maybe we can put together a Doodle with
some pre-defined two-hour time blocks and see if we can find something that
works well for everyone.

For example, Fridays 12 PM CST would work just fine for me and would be 6
PM for Eoin in Dublin (after billable hours) and Fabio and noon in Hong
Kong for Tobias.  Would that work?

~josh


On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Michael Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org>wrote:

> I'm on board with finding something that works for all.
>
> What alternative would you like to propose for consideration and vote?
>
> Currently our approach is to find 4 dates where we have 6 hour board
> meetings. The goal is to attach these to in person events when possible
> (AppSec conferences) since there is value in having people together in
> person for the board meeting. When not possible we are aiming for
> Saturdays.
>
> Would you like to propose an alternative for a vote or are you good
> working through the above process to find 4 dates that work for everyone?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Michael Coates
> Chair, Global Board
> OWASP
> @_mwc
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I understand the requirement and am not debating it nor the merits of
>> having regular meetings.  In fact, my cause for concern here is to ensure
>> that everyone (including myself) is able to meet this requirement.  But
>> holding the new Board accountable to the previous Board's scheduling
>> desires does not seem like the appropriate way to ensure this.  Hence, my
>> request to re-organize based on the collective needs and desires of all of
>> the Board members.  I'm sure that your unanimous vote was appropriate for
>> those who served before, but it is irrelevant for the new Board.  I'm not
>> sure what the issue is with me requesting a new vote on the dates that work
>> best for everyone.  This seems like a fairly simple and benign request to
>> ensure that everyone can participate to their fullest extent and by
>> shooting it down it feels like the needs and desires of the new Board
>> members are being subjugated by those of the old Board members.  If we are
>> all truly equals here, then trying to find a schedule that works toward
>> everyone's best interest shouldn't be an issue.  Simply put, I had no say
>> in the Board schedule previously, but would like to be able to have a voice
>> in the one that I am required by the Bylaws to uphold.
>>
>> ~josh
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Michael Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> The attendance requirements are in the bylaws and have been there for
>>> quite some time (i.e. before the move to 4 quarterly meetings). There are
>>> many items in the bylaws determined by previous boards that apply to all of
>>> us
>>> Please be sure to be aware of all of these responsibilities in your role.
>>>
>>> The purpose of discussing the dates now is so we can find dates that
>>> allow everyone to attend. With our advanced planning we can all plan to
>>> attend all 4 events and in the event of an emergency we'll still make 3 of
>>> the 4.
>>>
>>> I'll leave it to others if they want to hold a new vote on an issue we
>>> just voted in a few weeks back. No preference from me here. My personal
>>> view is the unanimous vote was based on a good plan and feedback from many
>>> board meetings over many years.
>>>
>>> -Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Coates
>>> Chair, Global Board
>>> OWASP
>>> @_mwc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have requested access to the document.  Please approve.
>>>>
>>>> I strongly disagree with your recommendation.  It is based on a vote
>>>> that took place when 3 out of 7 of the Board members weren't even able to
>>>> participate.  That's not even a quorum amongst the current Board.  I
>>>> believe that the dates should be decided as a group with the participation
>>>> of the full group of Board members who will be subject to the dates.  It is
>>>> unfair to enforce a 3/4 attendance policy based on dates and days that were
>>>> not agreed to in advance.  With each new Board, we should be re-evaluating
>>>> several many factors to ensure that our selected dates and times are good
>>>> for everybody:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The day of the week.
>>>> 2) The time of the day.
>>>> 3) The duration of the meeting.
>>>>
>>>> If we can't get a quorum agreeing to these factors, then there is no
>>>> point in having a meeting as nothing can be voted on.
>>>>
>>>> ~josh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Michael Coates <
>>>> michael.coates at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Board + Sarah,
>>>>>
>>>>> To facilitate suggested times can you help me complete the following?
>>>>>
>>>>> This page has everyone's primary timezone and which appsec events
>>>>> they're attending.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/document/d/1zFDK7FYmk1ZSqjiJImxLrfX36xtaHXOsq67IwT2iq3w/edit
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael Coates
>>>>> Chair, Global Board
>>>>> OWASP
>>>>> @_mwc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Michael Coates <
>>>>> michael.coates at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless we have a large group that wants to dramatically change our
>>>>>> approach I recommend we stay with our unanimous vote from the board
>>>>>> meeting. I recognize that people have other things going on in life, we all
>>>>>> do, and the decision to volunteer time towards an OWASP board role is no
>>>>>> small commitment. The goal of scheduling the meetings for all of 2014 is so
>>>>>> we can plan and accommodate these important meetings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll start a doodle with several options for us to evaluate. We'll
>>>>>> need to agree on dates that can accommodate everyone with the understanding
>>>>>> that attendance (in person or virtual) is required at 3 of 4 meetings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Michael Coates
>>>>>> Chair, Global Board
>>>>>> OWASP
>>>>>> @_mwc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 5:24 AM, Eoin <eoinkeary at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could we do two 3h meetings a quarter?
>>>>>>> 1 on weekends and 1 during the working week....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17 December 2013 12:55, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure.  If you were always 100% booked it could.  Likewise, it will
>>>>>>>> always take that time away from my family and force me to cancel recurring
>>>>>>>> lessons for my kids that I've already got planned.  I've got two days a
>>>>>>>> week to spend with my family.  You've got 5 days to work.  Regardless, I'm
>>>>>>>> willing to compromise, but will not do two 6hr Sat meetings.  One would be
>>>>>>>> hard enough to explain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ~josh
>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2013 2:18 AM, "Eoin Keary" <eoinkeary at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can't do 6hr meets during working week.
>>>>>>>>> I have bills to pay. That could cost me circa $1200 to do the
>>>>>>>>> meeting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eoin Keary
>>>>>>>>> Owasp Global Board
>>>>>>>>> +353 87 977 2988
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 17 Dec 2013, at 02:12, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems kinda crappy that the old board decides the duration and
>>>>>>>>> days that the new board will meet.  I'd like to propose a new vote amongst
>>>>>>>>> the new board in order to determine whether this is still the most
>>>>>>>>> convenient for everyone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Personally, I have no issue with 6 hr meetings if its during the
>>>>>>>>> work week.  I also have no issue with shorter meetings if they are on the
>>>>>>>>> weekend.  I take issue with the combination as it takes significant time
>>>>>>>>> away from my family and I already have things scheduled for my children on
>>>>>>>>> Saturdays.
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 16, 2013 6:28 PM, "Michael Coates" <
>>>>>>>>> michael.coates at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's not just me. This was voted on during the board meeting at
>>>>>>>>>> Europe. 6 hr meetings provide time to get stuff done. The consensus was
>>>>>>>>>> that each year the board would plan the events for the following year. They
>>>>>>>>>> would be on Saturdays or in some cases week days to align with AppSec
>>>>>>>>>> events.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Vote was aug 19 -
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Votes
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the selected dates, 3 out of 4 are good, but I can't do
>>>>>>>>>> the June 27 date.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Michael
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Coates
>>>>>>>>>> Chair, Global Board
>>>>>>>>>> OWASP
>>>>>>>>>> @_mwc
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Josh Sokol <
>>>>>>>>>> josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If we were only doing 1-2 hours once a month, then Saturday
>>>>>>>>>>> would probably be fine, but since it seemed that Michael really wanted to
>>>>>>>>>>> go for longer meetings once a quarter, I would much prefer to do these
>>>>>>>>>>> during the week where it does not impact the limited amount of time I have
>>>>>>>>>>> with my family.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ~josh
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Sarah Baso <
>>>>>>>>>>> sarah.baso at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Board member -
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *No meeting next monday (23rd), I will update the meeting
>>>>>>>>>>>> invite. *
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We do need to finalize the meeting dates for next year to get
>>>>>>>>>>>> them on the calendar so everyone can plan accordingly:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here were my suggestions to get the ball rolling:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Saturday April 12 or 19 (after end of Q1 with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>>>>    time for Alison to reconcile reports) We also should have a wrap up of 2013
>>>>>>>>>>>>    finances by then for review
>>>>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Friday June 27 in person in Cambridge (conference is Monday
>>>>>>>>>>>>    - Thursday June 23-26th)
>>>>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Monday September 15th in person in Denver (conference is
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Tuesday - Friday Sept 16-19th)
>>>>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Saturday Nov 8 or 15 - new board members are elected and
>>>>>>>>>>>>    planning for 2015.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> sarah.baso at owasp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1.312.869.2779
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Eoin Keary
>>>>>>> OWASP Global Board Member
>>>>>>> OWASP Code Review Guide Lead Author
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/EoinKeary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/BCCRiskAdvisory
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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