[Owasp-board] [Global_conference_committee] Loss from AppSec Asia

Sarah Baso sarah.baso at owasp.org
Wed Dec 7 20:59:07 UTC 2011


Mark -
What about this agreement?
https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B5Z9zE0hx0LNNmNlNmUyMzMtZmYzNC00NWU3LWIyNzgtNzRlMTdlZGMxMTBj&hl=en

Sarah

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Mark Bristow <mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:

> Tin,
>
> This is how I also understand our relationship with one caveat.  I
> don't believe that there is a formal agreement between SecZone and
> OWASP for them to act as our representative.  Had this agreement been
> in place, we could have clearly defined how profit/loss would be
> shared for the event, as well as a bunch of other requirements that we
> impose on legal entities representing OWASP elsewhere in the world.
> This however is a larger question beyond this event, and is one the
> board has taken for action.
>
> There are a few points here:
> 1. In this case, it seems to that the OWASP foundation should realize
> a $5,500 loss for this event (The fact that this was not spelled out
> before hand is troubling)
> 2. We need to clarify and formalize our relationship with SecZone as
> it relates to OWASP in China (Board Action)
> 3. We need to better define and vett budgets and impose additional
> auditing requirements as event planning is in process
> 4. We need to be more dilligent in determining the exact composition
> of the on-site planning team earlier in the process to identify
> potential issues earlier in rather than ex-post facto.
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Tin Zaw <tin.zaw at owasp.org> wrote:
> > I am not sure if Mark's comments or understanding is in sync with what
> > conference organizers -- Rip, Ivy, Frank -- had told me.
> >
> > To me, it was 100% OWASP conference. OWASP, not SecZone or others, was
> > the name used, as you can see in the photos here.
> >
> https://plus.google.com/photos/106576365897061578673/albums/5678655625299333025
> >
> > SecZone is listed as one of the supporters, just like Frank's company
> > and other supporters.
> >
> > OWASP does not have a legal entity in China and you need a legal
> > entity in China to do a conference like that. So SecZone (a registered
> > non-profit in China, that I was told) was used as a legal entity to
> > organize things for OWASP, on OWASP's behalf.
> >
> > On the bigger scope, OWASP China is "housed" inside SecZone. My
> > understanding is that this is not dissimilar to NASA JPL housed inside
> > Caltech.  SecZone/Caltech provides administrative support while the
> > housed organization carries out OWASP's/NASA's mission. The main
> > reason for this is that an organization in China needs to be a
> > registered legal entity with the government. (Let's not forget that
> > "Communist Party" still rules China). They also informed us that OWASP
> > is not the only organization housed inside SecZone. There are others
> > but OWASP is the major org supported by SecZone.
> >
> > I think it is correct to consider SecZone's and OWASP's budgets (for
> > conference and the chapter) separate. But we should understand the
> > nuances we face when we advance our mission in different cultural
> > contexts.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Mark Bristow <mark.bristow at owasp.org>
> wrote:
> >> So before we get to far down this road.  AppSecASIAPAC was an anomoly.
> >>  GCC (at least I) was not aware that there was another organization
> >> involved until VERY late in the game (weeks before the event).
> >> Technically it should have been classified as a partner event, where a
> >> contract between our two organizations would have been signed (by the
> >> board) up front, clearly identifiying these issues.
> >>
> >> In this case, this was presented as a 100% OWASP event when it reality
> >> it was not.  That's the root of the problem here and unlike LATAM the
> >> other organization is more "partner" than "contractor".
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Sarah Baso <sarah.baso at owasp.org>
> wrote:
> >>> I agree with capping the loss. I also think we should have some more
> strict
> >>> budget requirements for global appsec conferences, especially when we
> have
> >>> 3rd parties handling the money.  If Alison is the one making payments
> and
> >>> accepting money, we can check in with her at any point to find out the
> >>> status of an event; however, we don't have this visibility/transparency
> >>> right now with the 3rd parties.
> >>>
> >>> I think before we go forward with signing contracts for 2012 events
> >>> (especially in Latin America and AsiaPac where they have not run the
> money
> >>> through the Foundation), we should discuss and decide on  a policy for
> this.
> >>>
> >>> Sarah
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Eoin <eoin.keary at owasp.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Matt ,
> >>>> As treasurer what are your thoughts on limiting liability for losses
> at
> >>>> global conferences. My view is If we don't do this we are leaving the
> >>>> foundation exposed. Such a cap should be in a contract signed by the
> >>>> conference organisers?? It can be a % or a figure, but right now are
> we in a
> >>>> position if unlimited liability??
> >>>> Anyone, thoughts??
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 7 Dec 2011, at 18:19, Sarah Baso <sarah.baso at owasp.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Alison -
> >>>> Can you find look to see (or maybe you know off the top of your head)
> if
> >>>> we sent any down payment or money (other than the approx. $3222 sent
> >>>> recently to cover hotel costs) to China for this conference.  It
> probably
> >>>> would have been in late July or August of this year?
> >>>>
> >>>> They are currently at a $16,166.22 loss, but Frank Fan's company
> >>>> (DBAppSecurity) still owes $4742 and SecZone has said they can cover
> about
> >>>> $6,000 of the loss. The leaves about $5,500 for us to possibly cover.
>  I
> >>>> want to make sure we have a full financial picture of what we have
> paid
> >>>> before anything is decided though.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Sarah
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Mark Bristow <mark.bristow at owasp.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I believe some of the loss will be realized by each party
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my wireless device
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Dec 7, 2011, at 10:33 AM, "Kate Hartmann" <
> kate.hartmann at owasp.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know there is a documented loss for AppSec Asia for 2011.  Is the
> >>>>> foundation expected to reimburse SecZone for this loss?  What was the
> >>>>> agreement for the financials for this event.  I know that much of
> this has
> >>>>> come from Rip’s personal account.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We need to clear this up before the end of the year.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kate Hartmann
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Operations Director
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 301-275-9403
> >>>>>
> >>>>> www.owasp.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Skype:  Kate.hartmann1
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <Copy of OWASP 2011 Appsec Asia cost-1128.xlsx>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Global_conference_committee mailing list
> >>>>> Global_conference_committee at lists.owasp.org
> >>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/global_conference_committee
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Global_conference_committee mailing list
> >>>>> Global_conference_committee at lists.owasp.org
> >>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/global_conference_committee
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Administrator for
> >>>> OWASP Global Conference Committee
> >>>> OWASP Global Chapter Committee
> >>>>
> >>>> Dir: 312-869-2779
> >>>> skype: sarah.baso
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Owasp-board mailing list
> >>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
> >>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Administrator for
> >>> OWASP Global Conference Committee
> >>> OWASP Global Chapter Committee
> >>>
> >>> Dir: 312-869-2779
> >>> skype: sarah.baso
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Owasp-board mailing list
> >>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
> >>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark Bristow
> >> (703) 596-5175
> >> mark.bristow at owasp.org
> >>
> >> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - http://is.gd/5MTvF
> >> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - http://is.gd/5MTwu
> >> AppSec DC Organizer - https://www.appsecdc.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Owasp-board mailing list
> >> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
> >> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tin Zaw, CISSP, CSSLP
> > Chapter Leader and President, OWASP Los Angeles Chapter
> > Chair, OWASP Global Chapter Committee
> > Google Voice: (213) 973-9295
> > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tinzaw
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
> mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - https://www.appsecdc.org
>



-- 
Administrator for
OWASP Global Conference Committee
OWASP Global Chapter Committee

Dir: 312-869-2779
skype: sarah.baso
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