[Owasp-board] [Owasp-leaders] Abuse of the OWASP brand: http://www.owasptop10.nl

Seba seba at owasp.org
Thu Jun 11 06:23:46 UTC 2009


I do not want to incur costs that can be avoided.
"I'm not an expert in EU trademark law, but I believe it to be
relatively similar to US trademark law.  In general, you do not need
to *register* your trademark. There are a few benefits to doing so,
but it is not required.  You can even enforce it in court without
registering."
=> Jeff: are you sure about this?
I don't know if there is a EU leader with legal contacts/experience, I
can post the question to the leaders list?

regards

Seba

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Dinis Cruz<dinis.cruz at owasp.org> wrote:
> On the other hand , our brand is one of the few 'real' assets that we have
> and registering this trademark would be sending an important message that WE
> DO take it seriously (and that we are organized enough to go through the
> legal process)
>
> So I vote YES to continue with this application (in fact this expense should
> come from the Marketing & PR SoC application budget :) )
>
> Dinis Cruz
>
> On 10 Jun 2009, at 21:02, "Jeff Williams" <jeff.williams at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>> I think this may not be a good use of our funds.
>>
>> I'm not an expert in EU trademark law, but I believe it to be relatively
>> similar to US trademark law.  In general, you do not need to *register* your
>> trademark. There are a few benefits to doing so, but it is not required.
>>  You can even enforce it in court without registering.
>>
>> I believe there is very little doubt that we have established the
>> trademarks "OWASP" and "Open Web Application Security Project" in most
>> countries in the world. Under the ICANN procedures for domain name disputes,
>> we *do not* need a registered trademark to enforce our rights.
>>
>> The best outcome would be if they will willingly give up the domain. We
>> should make it clear that we are willing to force them to relinquish it if
>> necessary.  That will cost us some money ($1000-$1500 US roughly).  But it
>> would be best if they just handed it over.
>>
>> --Jeff
>>
>> Jeff Williams, Chair
>> The OWASP Foundation
>> Work: 410-707-1487
>> Main: 301-604-4882
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sebastien.deleersnyder at gmail.com
>>> [mailto:sebastien.deleersnyder at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Seba
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 1:48 PM
>>> To: OWASP Foundation Board List; Jeff Williams
>>> Subject: Fwd: [Owasp-leaders] Abuse of the OWASP brand:
>>> http://www.owasptop10.nl
>>>
>>> I have applied for EU trademark (see attached) can you review this (I
>>> have applied for very generic classes to cover OWASP Open Web
>>> Application Project as word trademark) ?
>>>
>>> Cost to proceed is € 1200 with wire (details see doc)
>>>
>>> ok to proceed?
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Seba
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Blake Cornell <blake at owasp.org>
>>> Date: Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Owasp-leaders] Abuse of the OWASP brand:
>>> http://www.owasptop10.nl
>>> To: owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>
>>>
>>> Some testicular fortitude ripping web app sec content and putting it on
>>> a web page.  This gives new meaning to red teaming...
>>>
>>> Jokes aside, a reasonable explination is required from these folks or a
>>> cease and decist order may be required.
>>>
>>> -Blake
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org
>>> [mailto:owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org] On Behalf Of Justin
>>> Clarke
>>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:04 PM
>>> To: owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Owasp-leaders] Abuse of the OWASP brand:
>>> http://www.owasptop10.nl
>>>
>>> As far as I’m aware, the US entity should be able to file for an EU
>>> trademark. This is quite common as, unlike the US, the EU is a “who
>>> files first” as opposed to “who used it first” regime when it comes to
>>> trademarks..
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> On 08/06/2009 21:45, "Martin Knobloch" <martin.knobloch at owasp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone who has been to the summit in Portugal, if am not mistaken there
>>> was a discussion about that. Right?
>>>
>>> Justin, What type of legal entity do we need to be? Can the foundation
>>> board register an EU trademark?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Justin Clarke
>>> <justin.clarke at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> One things which would be useful to consider is filing to register an
>>> EU trademark over “OWASP” as well as other marks.  From memory it costs
>>> around €300 to file a trademark which is valid across the entire EU.
>>> US trademarks are not enforceable outside of the US.
>>>
>>> Justin
>>> London chapter leader
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/06/2009 21:28, "Martin Knobloch" <martin.knobloch at owasp.org
>>> <http://martin.knobloch@owasp.org> > wrote:
>>>
>>> We where planning this already, before this situation occured.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Sebastien gioria <seb at gioria.org
>>> <http://seb@gioria.org> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I think it's time to have some leaders-discussion about to make a
>>> "legal" representation in some country.
>>>
>>> In France, we have take the decision to make a French non-profit to
>>> keep the OWASP brand under control. We think this is a good idea to all
>>> country who can do the same.
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 8 juin 09 à 22:10, Martin Knobloch a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Thanks for letting us know! We know them and will handle this!
>>>
>>> The content of this site is misleading as it suggest it would be part
>>> of OWASP. Therefore we could take legal actions. First we will try it
>>> the nice way and talk to them.
>>> Generally spoken, the problem is OWASP is not a registred trademark in
>>> neither Europe nor the Netherlands! There is also a site
>>> http://www.owasp.nl, but we have no legal justicy to act against them
>>> becaus of we are not a trademark.
>>> ..please correct me if this has changed!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Justin Clarke <justin.clarke at owasp.org
>>> <http://justin.clarke@owasp.org> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> This would seem to be a violation of OWASP’s brand usage over “name,
>>> domain, logos, project names, and other trademarks” -
>>> http://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_brand_usage_rules
>>>
>>> Of course, the real trick is what to do about it – does anyone know
>>> these guys?  Can ask them to refrain from using the OWASP brand and
>>> marks?
>>>
>>> Justin
>>> London chapter leader
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/06/2009 10:11, "Erwin Geirnaert"
>>> <erwin.geirnaert at zionsecurity.com
>>> <http://erwin.geirnaert@zionsecurity.com>
>>> <http://erwin.geirnaert@zionsecurity.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi list,
>>>
>>> Just googled for Owasp Top 10 and I got here: http://www.owasptop10.nl
>>>
>>> This is a site in Dutch offering OWASP Top 10 scanning services, an
>>> ‘initiative’ from 2 companies.
>>>
>>> Is this something that Owasp is aware of? And supports?
>>> Any steps that Owasp can take if this is not allowed?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Erwin
>>> OWASP Belgium Board Member
>>>
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