[Owasp-board] Fwd: (OWASP non-profit org in France)

dinis cruz dinis.cruz at owasp.org
Sun Mar 23 11:49:01 UTC 2008

(owasp board guys, see below further comments from lodovic on the non-US
OWASP non-profit orgs  thread)

Loduvic, as suggested, please explore further this topic with the OWASP
French chapter board (CCed) and let us know your conclusions.

Best regards

Dinis Cruz
Chief OWASP Evangelist

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: PETIT Ludovic <ludovic.petit at fr.sfr.com>
Date: Mar 21, 2008 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: FW:
To: Dinis Cruz <dinis at ddplus.net>, owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
Cc: board at owasp.fr

 Hi Dinis

Many thanks for your explanations, this is very instructive.

In fact, in France, if you wish to do something in an "official" way, I mean
as a reference linked to "something", you have to do so in respect to a kind
of legal status
regarding the french legal framework.
Don't misunderstand me, this is not an obligation, but once again, (and this
is maybe typically french:) if you want to be considered as a reference in
something in France, the best way to be considered as such is to have an
official status.
One of the most used status for this is the "non-profit association" status.
That's why we evoked this perspective.

For instance, to have a talk or references in news papers, etc. if you don't
have any official references linked to an organisation, organism, Foundation
such as OWASP,
in France you cannot expect to have something without any official status,
wich, for most people, "identifiy" you as... .
An the idea we have had, was to evangelize in France, through/via a
"non-profit association" such as OWASP French Chapter.

Jeff and all, I have to apologize for not having sent enough informations in
my initial request ;-)

For information, the current "french board" members are,

   - Olivier Caleff (olivier.caleff at owasp.fr)
    - Mathieu Estrade (mathieu.estrade at owasp.fr)
    - Romain Gaucher (romain.gaucher at owasp.fr)
    - Sébastien Gioria (sebastien.gioria at owasp.fr)
   - Ludovic Petit (ludovic.petit at owasp.fr)

 This said, and without talking officially in the name of the french board
cc, everithing is possible and what you evoked make sense.

May I suggest first, for us in France, to discuss about this status subject,
then give you back an update so that we can agree on something.

Thanks anyway.


*From:* Dinis Cruz [mailto:dinis at ddplus.net]
*Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 12:58 PM
*To:* PETIT Ludovic
*Cc:* Andrew van der Stock; board at owasp.fr; OWASP Foundation Board List
*Subject:* Re: FW:

Hi Ludovic,

Thanks for your email and I will try to answer your queries (Jeff's probably
also missed the urgency of your email due to it's lack of subject :)  )

At the moment there is NO official OWASP 'local chapters organization model'
and no financial agreements between the OWASP central and local chapters
(this is something we have talked about a lot, but have not yet implemented
our ideas (for example the 'OWASP points' model which would allow local
chapters to 'buy' certain materials/services from OWASP.org)).

This is an area where we are still trying to figure out the best way to
handle this situation and to balance the needs of the local chapters and the
OWASP  mothership. Part of it was lack of a real need to do it, so if you
(France) are really committed to this, maybe now is the time to move forward
at a faster speed.

One question I would like to ask is why is there such a need (to create a
local (i.e. french) non profit OWASP organization)? Are there financial
requirements? or financial incentives to do so? Is that something that your
local attendees want? Do you need it for legal reasons?

Although from the point of view of the OWASP board we don't want to do
anything that will slow down the development and evolution of local OWASP
chapters, we also don't want a situation where there are 10s or 100s of
local 'non profit' organizations around the world (each with a different
model, structure, rules, etc...).

I'm not saying that that route (local 'non profit' organizations for local
chapters) is not a very viable option, it is just that we need to make sure
that everything makes sense.

For reference, Andrew is not on the OWASP board any more, and the current
OWASP board members are: Me, Jeff, Dave, Tom (New York Chapter leader) and
Sebastien (Belgium Chapter leader).

Tom (from NY) actually has the role within the OWASP board of 'OWASP
Governance' and he is trying to create a model for local chapters. He is
also the leader of the most successful OWASP chapter (NY) which is the
chapter with the biggest management structure. The idea for Tom to share how
the NY chapter is organized and see how that can be used on other chapters.

One idea, what about creating a 'region' organization instead of one per
chapter. What I mean is that the current US non profit OWASP organization
could handle all American chapters (north and south),  we could create one
for the EU, and one of APAC?

Would that work for you? (having one 'non profit' for the whole of the EU?
(maybe (or not) based in France))

Dinis Cruz
Chief OWASP Evangelist

On 3/21/08, PETIT Ludovic <ludovic.petit at fr.sfr.com> wrote:
>  Hi Andrew and Dinis
> I forward 'cause I suppose that Jeff is currently busy, but w need to take
> a decision in France to officialize the status of the French Chapter in the
> coming days.
> Could you please help and tell us how to deal about the membership item
> for the French Chapter.
> Thanks.
> Ludovic
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* PETIT Ludovic
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:48 PM
> *To:* 'jeff.williams at owasp.org'
> *Cc:* 'board at owasp.fr'
> *Subject:*
>  Hi Jeff
> We need your help because we're currently studying the Status for the
> Owasp Feench Chapter, as what we call in France, an "Association Loi 1901",
> i.e. of course, a non-profit Association.
> More precisely,we (i.e. the French Chapter's Board Members) are studying
> the "Member" status and a related fee for those interested.
> The Question is: How are other Owasp Chapters dealing with this ?
> Do they specify on their respective web sites a link towards the Owasp
> Foundation in US related to the Membership description ?
> As Owasp Foundation, do you,have any agreement(s) with other Chapters
> abroad ?
> If so, what kind of agreement(s) ?
> Could you please advise us on this item, as we do not want, of course,
> mismatch with the Owasp Foundation's approach.
> Many thanks.
> Ludovic


Dinis Cruz
Chief OWASP Evangelist
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