[Owasp-board] (Request for [email protected] special item for OWASPmembers) Fwd: Carolina Blue Sweatshirt

Andrew van der Stock vanderaj at owasp.org
Tue Nov 6 22:07:28 UTC 2007


I vote NO on the basis that the conference is just around the corner,  
and it's another $1200 we didn't expect to spend this close to the  
conference. I'm okay with this idea for future OWASP conferences  
(Australia / EU) as long we have taken care to plan and budget for the  
free shwag, and take into consideration those folks who will  
prohibited from attending if we have any free shwag. And that last one  
isn't a red herring, it stopped me attending things in the past, and  
it's a rule at most of the larger organizations.

For any future conferences, it's my view that shwag should be no more  
than 5% of the gross income derived from attendees, capped at $30 for  
those folks paying more (like sponsors etc).  If it's too much stuff,  
many companies have anti-graft policies which prohibit gifts greater  
than $10, and attendees can't come if it becomes well known that  
there's major shwag. At the NAB, I was prohibited going to free  
Microsoft launches for example, because they would give away full  
copies of software worth several hundred dollars. Being a Mac dude  
simply didn't cut the mustard as I might have sold the product on eBay  
and been motivated to plug MS to continue getting more free shwag.  
Most conferences, including the $1200 ones like Black Hat, give you  
nothing beyond a badge and a CD and a bag full of marketing material.

Whilst we are a non-profit, it doesn't mean everything we do must  
break even. Members should not be getting 100% of the fees back in  
shwag and other considerations. That's not how it works - we provide  
value to them by doing member oriented stuff and promoting our mission  
and our field, not returning their money to them in the form of t- 
shirts and books. If we returned all the money in the past, we could  
never grow and never have afforded to grow to the point where we can  
afford to do the grants. We should be making money from the t-shirts  
and books, not giving them away. People do not value "free". That is  
not to say we shouldn't have a member pack with stuff useful to the  
members in it, but it should be a minute percentage of the fee we get  
from them.

Conferences are a major source of income over the entire year to pay  
for things like our admin person, hosting, servers, software (like the  
copy of Pagemaker), and obviously our core programs, such as the  
Grants and so on. We can't keep on spending $1200 here and $5000 there  
- as soon enough we don't have enough money to pay salaries and keep  
the link alive.

The amount of stuff we can spend on an event should not be looked at  
as a bottomless bag of money or a zero sum game, just because it might  
raise $X amount or we get a sponsorship here or there. Far too often  
recently, I've read "let's spend X sponsorship on this particular  
thing". That is how you get into credit card debt - matching income to  
specific purchases. We don't have credit, and must never get there for  
operating expenses. Although I am not against progress, we must be  
responsible, or otherwise we will have to become far smaller than we  
are today and lose all the momentum we have built up.

Dinis, you have great ideas, and please don't stop them. But let's get  
into discussions about how we can best make use of the budget we have  
for the next conference, balancing our needs to grow in our activities  
versus "free" shwag for members. As I understand it, we have ribbons  
or similar (a la Black Hat and most other conferences I've been to) to  
differentiate speakers, etc. That's enough for this conference  
considering that it is on in less than two week's time.

thanks,
Andrew


On Nov 6, 2007, at 3:43 PM, Dinis Cruz wrote:

> Humm, I am not getting a warm feeling of support from you guys on  
> this idea. Remember that the objective is to give our members  
> something extra, and that I will help with the extra logistics.
>
> The cost here is about 1200 USD with a unit cost (with shipping) of  
> about 24 USD, which since our non-individual membership starts at  
> 2000 USD, so this is not really a cost issue.
>
> Let make this simple: Yes or No?
>
> I vote YES
>
> Dinis
>
> On 11/6/07, dave wichers <dave.wichers at owasp.org > wrote:
> I think it will be difficult to ID members since many speakers are  
> also members but they didn't register as members.  Its also warm in  
> SJ  so people won't wear then there. I'm also concerned about the  
> cost relative to membership fee's.
>
> People also don't wear sweatshirts to professional events / offices  
> which is where most people wear shirts and stuff with professional  
> logos. I can't imagine when I would wear one, for example.
>
> -Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Dinis Cruz" <dinis at ddplus.net>
> To: "Jeff Williams" <jeff.williams at aspectsecurity.com >
> Cc: "OWASP Board" <owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
> Sent: 11/6/2007 12:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Owasp-board] (Request for [email protected] special item  
> for      OWASPmembers) Fwd: Carolina Blue Sweatshirt
>
> I REALLY want to give our member something unique! Specially  
> something they
> could wear on the day which 'differenciates' them from the 'other' non
> members.
>
> For now, my main focus are our members, so I would say that we get  
> 50, give
> them to the members that are there (starting with the non-individual  
> ones),
> and then figure out what to do with the rest (probably give them to  
> owasp
> leaders on a first come first server basis)
>
> Since the numbers are not that high (50), I can help with the  
> logistics on
> this one :) since this activity falls into my OWASP evagelism  
> activities :)
>
> So are you guys OK with it?
>
> Dinis
>
>
>
>
> On 11/6/07, Jeff Williams < jeff.williams at aspectsecurity.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Since everyone is already getting a shirt I think this may be  
> overkill
> > and one more logistical thing to deal with.  I do like the idea of  
> doing
> > this kind of thng to encourae the leaders.  We do have a slight  
> problem
> > defining exactly who a leader is... Some chapters have multiple  
> people
> > signed up.
> >
> > --Jeff
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Dinis Cruz" < dinis at ddplus.net>
> > To: "OWASP Board" <owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
> > Sent: 11/6/2007 10:52 AM
> > Subject: [Owasp-board] (Request for [email protected] special item for OWASP
> > members) Fwd: Carolina Blue Sweatshirt
> >
> > Hi guys
> >
> > Using a good friend in the US (who is into design production) we  
> are able
> > to get the following deal: a Carolina Blue Sweatshirt for about 22  
> USD with
> > an extra 75 USD delivery (if we order 50 it should be a total of  
> 1200 USD).
> > See below for a screenshot and some more details.
> >
> > Since we are going to have at the conference about 40  
> representatives from
> > current OWASP members, I would like to propose that we give each  
> one them
> > and all participating OWASP leaders one of these Sweetshirts. This  
> would be
> > a good 'kudos' item, and if the sweetshirts look ok, we could even  
> put them
> > in the OWASP member pack.
> >
> > What do you guys say? Are you OK to go ahead with this?
> >
> > We really need the decision today
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Dinis
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Deb Brewer <deb at lxstudios.com>
> > Date: Nov 6, 2007 2:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: Carolina Blue Sweatshirt
> > To: Dinis Cruz < dinis at ddplus.net>
> >
> >
> > Hi Dinis!
> >
> > The first scenario you typed, one flat rush fee of 75, we don't  
> have a
> > rush fee on each shirt.
> >
> > Are you cool with the 1-color rendition of the logo?
> >
> >
> > On 11/6/07 8:17 AM, "Dinis Cruz" <dinis at ddplus.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >         Hi Deb
> >
> >         Will the final price be something like ($20 * 50) + $75     
> ( i.e.
> > 50 items at $20 each plus $75 for shipping)
> >
> >         or
> >
> >         ($20 + $75) * 50    (i.e. $95 per item x 50)
> >
> >
> >         If we are talking about 50 t-shirts
> >
> >         Regarding sizes I would say all XL (to make it simple)
> >
> >         Dinis
> >
> >
> >         On 11/6/07, Deb Brewer <deb at lxstudios.com    <
> > mailto:deb at lxstudios.com <deb at lxstudios.com>> <mailto:deb at lxstudios.com 
> < deb at lxstudios.com>>
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >                 Hi Dinis,
> >                 Here is rough pricing on the shirt below. I'll  
> have to
> > convert the art to one color (will print white underneath and then  
> a dark
> > blue for the graphic) in order to make this deadline. What do you  
> think? Do
> > you think you'll want to proceed ? Sorry I can't pull it off in  
> full color.
> > She'll need our order approval ASAP. I can firm up pricing when I  
> know what
> > sizes you need. Talk soon! D
> >
> >                 2-color left chest
> >                 S-XL: $20.43
> >                 XXL:  $25.04
> >                 Rush Charge: $75; Expedited shipping, UPS Red to  
> reach
> > Californ. By Nov. 14
> >
> >
> >
> >                 Carolina Blue.
> >                 Qtys available are:
> >                 96 med; 120 XL; and 48 @XL.
> >
> >                 Can  you let me know ASAP so we can place an order  
> and not
> > lose the stock.
> >                 We will have to ship overnight as this vendor is not
> > within a 1-day ship zone.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                 ------ End of Forwarded Message
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-board mailing list
> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.owasp.org/pipermail/owasp-board/attachments/20071106/7ad6d956/attachment-0002.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 2458 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.owasp.org/pipermail/owasp-board/attachments/20071106/7ad6d956/attachment-0002.bin>


More information about the Owasp-board mailing list