<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Ahhh, so this is something personal against me because I won't agree that it makes sense to lower the bar for attendance?  Let's call a spade a spade, Fabio.<br><br></div>These are two completely separate issues.  The Board attendance is one that ensures that you are at the meetings and actively engaged in the discussion and voting.  This is your FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY AS A BOARD MEMBER.  Meeting in-person has no effect on whether you are performing your Board duties.  It's a nice thing.  And, engaging with the community has NOTHING to do with attending a Board meeting in-person.  It has to do with being present while other members of our community are present.  Our community extends well beyond those present at AppSecUSA or AppSecEU.  That is an EXTREMELY narrow-minded viewpoint.  In fact, I would go so far as to argue that there are more members of our community that were at BlackHat than at either AppSec conference.  Nothing against AppSec, it's a great conference, I even ran one, but they're limited in appeal and in those who attend.<br><br></div>~josh<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Fabio Cerullo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fcerullo@owasp.org" target="_blank">fcerullo@owasp.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Guys,</div><div><br></div><div>My take on the 75% percent is that in the same fashion that US Board members could attend meetings comfortably during the day it is unfair to request other non-US Board members to attend meetings in the middle of the night. And then ask for a vote of CONFIDENCE if you go below that bar. Josh, in the same fashion that you object cannot attend meetings in person due to family reasons I think is unfair for you to request other Board members to make family sacrifices or deprive them from sleep. </div><div><br></div><div>Here is the 2015 schedule for past/upcoming Board meetings… almost all of them are early afternoon PST (Pacific time):</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings#tab=Agenda_for_2015_Meetings" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings#tab=Agenda_for_2015_Meetings</a></div><div><br></div><div>So my recommendation there is either to make the requirement more logical for everyone (attendance 50% or lower) or change the wording so the vote of CONFIDENCE is not mandatory.</div><div><br></div><div>Regarding the attendance in person… my suggestion is to require OWASP Board members to attend in-person at least ONE meeting a year and engage with the Global OWASP community. </div><div><br></div><div>I don’t believe there is a requirement in the Bylaws for OWASP Board members to attend BlackHat, BSides or other non-OWASP events.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><span class=""><br><div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div>Fabio Cerullo</div><div>Global Board Member</div>OWASP Foundation<div><a href="https://www.owasp.org" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org</a></div><div>Join me at <a href="https://2015.appsecusa.org" target="_blank">AppSecUSA 2015</a> in San Francisco!</div></div></div>
</div>
<br></span><div><div class="h5"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 26 Aug 2015, at 13:53, Jim Manico <<a href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org" target="_blank">jim.manico@owasp.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><div>
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Josh,<br>
    <br>
    +1 on both accounts. I am personally very grateful for your many and
    regular contributions on the board, even when we disagree on
    occasion. I think you handle conflict extremely well and I
    appreciate your strong sense of ethics.<br>
    <br>
    Keep on rockin' in the free world.<br>
    <br>
    Aloha,<br>
    Jim<br>
    <br>
    <div>On 8/26/15 7:13 AM, Josh Sokol wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>Fabio,<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            I did not express any concern about the 75% requirement.  I
            think it is a very reasonable expectation to have a Board
            member not miss more than 3 meetings a year.  Even that
            number seems high to me.  I don't see any issue if Michael
            or Andrew were to trigger a vote of confidence if they were
            to miss another meeting.  In all likelihodd, if that were to
            happen, we would just handle it exactly as we handled your
            situation.  We recognize contributions outside of the
            meetings and move on.  That said, if a Board member got
            elected, and simply wasn't attending meetings, or wasn't
            putting in any effort, would you really want to wait longer
            than 3 months to have the OPTION to remove them?  This
            process is working exactly as it was designed to.  Why would
            we want to change it all of a sudden now that someone was
            falling below the bar?<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          With respect to changing the in-person Board meeting
          requirements, I strongly object.  I was the one who petitioned
          the Board to have this requirement changed from MUST to SHOULD
          in the first place.  While my family and work obligations make
          travel quite difficult for me, I don't think it has sacrificed
          my participation in the Board at all.  And in terms of
          interaction with the community, I was out at both BSides Las
          Vegas and BlackHat where OWASP had a presence at both.  Were
          you?  I participate in the MONTHLY OWASP Austin chapter
          meetings, MONTHLY happy hours, and LASCON.  I attend many
          other local and regional security events such as BSides Austin
          and HouSecCon.  So, there are MANY other ways for a Board
          member to meet with the community, talk about their needs, and
          help them progress their projects without an in-person Board
          meeting.  With OWASP having a highly-distributed global Board,
          and in this age of technology, the idea that we all have to be
          in the same place to get something done is ludicrous.  Is it
          more ideal?  Absolutely.  Should it be a requirement? 
          Absolutely not.<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        ~josh<br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:08 AM, Fabio
          Cerullo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fcerullo@owasp.org" target="_blank">fcerullo@owasp.org</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Bill,
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Thanks for updating the wording in the clause below.
                I have some comments regarding the 75% attendance
                requirement.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Besides Josh, several board members already expressed
                a concern about this requirement and are willing to
                lower/eliminate it.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Just to give you an example: Michael and Andrew will
                trigger a vote of CONFIDENCE if they miss another
                meeting during the calendar year.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wpaOCBP-qrnde0sLiglDMJOUCtse6oB-zf3ONCkWgZk/edit?pli=1#gid=6" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wpaOCBP-qrnde0sLiglDMJOUCtse6oB-zf3ONCkWgZk/edit?pli=1#gid=6</a><br style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I think that is counterproductive and will send us in
                a spiral of votes of CONFIDENCE at every Board meeting.
                I would suggest to lower that requirement or NOT making
                the vote of CONFIDENCE a requirement for meetings
                attendance. The vote of CONFIDENCE should be a mechanism
                to expel a Board member if they don’t fulfil their
                duties, misbehave with other members/staff of the
                community, or they significantly do not show up at the
                Board meetings (e.g. attendance less than 50%). </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Also, I believe the requirement to meet in person is
                quite vague as per current statement below. I attended
                all in person meetings at AppSec USA & AppSec EU and
                think they are very valuable. You have a chance to meet
                with the community, talk about their needs, help them
                progress their projects, and meet face-to-face with your
                fellow Board members. So if we are going to change the
                Bylaws, I think we need to put a requirement for Board
                members to meet in person at least ONCE a year. I will
                appreciate your feedback and from the rest of the
                Governance list regarding this matter. </div>
              <span>
                <div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div><p class="MsoNormal">Attendance in person or
                          virtually by board members is required at no
                          less than 75% of the total meetings each year
                          and <b>shall be highly encouraged to meet in
                            person at least once annually</b> at a date
                          to be announced and agreed upon. </p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </span>
              <div>Thanks,</div>
              <div><br>
                <div>
                  <div style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
                    <div style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
                      <div>Fabio Cerullo</div>
                      <div>Global Board Member</div>
                      OWASP Foundation
                      <div><a href="https://www.owasp.org/" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org</a></div>
                      <div>Join me at <a href="https://2015.appsecusa.org/" target="_blank">AppSecUSA 2015</a> in
                        San Francisco!</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br>
                <div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>On 25 Aug 2015, at 10:22, Bil Corry <<a href="mailto:bil.corry@owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:bil.corry@owasp.org" target="_blank">bil.corry@owasp.org</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div>Hi Josh,</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Tabulation is described as thus
                              (emphasis is mine):</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>"Attendance is tabulated after every
                              scheduled meeting for the purpose of
                              determining if the 75% attendance
                              requirement has been met, and the
                              tabulation is <strong>based upon the
                                entire calendar year.</strong>"</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>That means if there are 12 meetings
                              during the year and you miss the first
                              meeting, your attendance is 11/12 or 92%. 
                              No vote required.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>As far as your other concerns, I've
                              updated the text below, hopefully I've
                              covered it all?  I pulled deadlines out of
                              thin air, so feel free to tweak the
                              numbers and method of voting.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><p class="MsoNormal"><b>SECTION 3.03
                                  Regular Meetings.</b> The Board of
                                Directors shall have regular meetings as
                                needed.  A link to the board meeting
                                agenda’s and the historical minutes is
                                here: <a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings</a><span>.</span>
                                 Meetings shall be at such dates, times,
                                and places as the Board shall determine
                                in December of the preceding year and as
                                amended by the Board. In no event will
                                there be less than one meeting per
                                quarter.  These meetings will be open to
                                public attendance, however, certain
                                portions of the meeting may be closed to
                                board members and their delegates when
                                required for legal reasons, or to shield
                                liability, or to handle personnel
                                issues, or similar.  Attendance in
                                person or virtually by board members is
                                required at no less than 75% of the
                                total meetings each year and shall be
                                highly encouraged to meet in person at
                                least once annually at a date to be
                                announced and agreed upon.  Attendance
                                is tabulated by the Executive Director
                                or delegate within seven days after
                                every scheduled meeting for the purpose
                                of determining if the 75% attendance
                                requirement has been met, and the
                                tabulation is based upon the entire
                                calendar year.  Cancelled meetings are
                                considered attended for the purposes of
                                the tabulation.  Failure by a board
                                member to meet the 75% attendance
                                requirement after any tabulation will
                                cause a mandatory vote of <span>confidence</span>
                                by the remaining board members, whose
                                votes will be publicly recorded.  The
                                vote of confidence is to take place
                                within 21 days, but not sooner than 7
                                days, of notification by the Executive
                                Director or delegate that a board member
                                has not met the attendance threshold. 
                                During the first seven days, the board
                                member in question will have an
                                opportunity to make their case to their
                                fellow board members.  The vote of
                                confidence will take place on the OWASP
                                Board of Directors email list, unless
                                the Board votes to review the matter at
                                their next meeting, so long as the next
                                meeting occurs within the 21-day
                                window.  An overall vote of "confidence"
                                is record if half or more of the board
                                members vote for it and it will prevent
                                further votes of confidence for the
                                remainder of the year so long as the
                                board member in question does not miss
                                any further meetings.  An overall vote
                                of "no <span>confidence</span>" is
                                recorded if more than half of the board
                                members vote for it, which causes the
                                board member in question to be instantly
                                removed from their seat on the board. 
                                Vacancies on the board are handled as
                                per Section 3.10.<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u><br>
                                  </u></span></p><div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><br></div><p class="MsoNormal"><s>2 OWASP Board of
                                  Directors will hold quarterly board
                                  meetings lasting 4­6 hours each. The
                                  schedule of meetings will be set by
                                  the board in December before the year.
                                  It is likely the the board meetings
                                  will take place on Saturdays or on a
                                  dedicated day before a large OWASP
                                  conference. This change is a result of
                                  the success of the longer format board
                                  meeting and also a result of the
                                  Executive Director role that has
                                  enabled full time involvement and
                                  focus on OWASP operations. Board
                                  members must attend (in person or
                                  virtually) 3 of the 4 meetings to
                                  fulfill the attendance requirements.
                                  This will take effect in January,
                                  2014. Changes passed August 19, 2013.</s></p>
                              <span><p class="MsoNormal"><s>3 “and shall be
                                    highly encouraged to meet in person
                                    at least once annually at a date to
                                    be announced and agreed upon”
                                    amendment to document passed June
                                    10, 2013.</s></p>
                              </span></div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>- Bil</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 24,
                              2015 at 2:31 PM, Josh Sokol <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>></span>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div>
                                    <div>Bil,<br>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                    I initiated a Board vote on the new
                                    text that you had proposed back in
                                    April or May this year and the Board
                                    unanimously voted to approve.  Paul
                                    has been working to try to identify
                                    all of the changes that have been
                                    made (there's only been one or two
                                    this year) in order to get a new
                                    version of the Bylaws on the
                                    website.  Regardless, the one that
                                    is there is definitely out-of-date. 
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                  With respect to your update, thank
                                  you, I was thinking something similar
                                  as well, but this doesn't address a
                                  few of my bullet points:<span><br>
                                    <ul>
                                      <li>The method of tabulation is
                                        unspecified.  If we are
                                        tabulating sequentially, then we
                                        have a situation where if a
                                        Board member missed their first
                                        meeting, a vote is required to
                                        be held for three tabulations
                                        (0%, 50%, and 66%) until they
                                        make it up over 75%.  I am
                                        guessing that the intent is for
                                        this to be tabulated assuming
                                        attendance for all future
                                        meetings and action would be
                                        taken if the person would be
                                        unable to maintain 75%
                                        attendance, but if anyone
                                        disagrees and has a different
                                        interpretation, please let me
                                        know.</li>
                                      <li>The timeframe for the vote is
                                        unspecified.  It just says that
                                        it will cause a mandatory vote
                                        of confidence, but never says
                                        when that vote is supposed to
                                        take place or who is supposed to
                                        initiate it.  Is it to be
                                        handled immediately at the time
                                        of tabulation?  Is it handled
                                        offline over e-mail as we
                                        recently did?  Is it handled at
                                        the next Board meeting?  Based
                                        on the current verbiage,
                                        technically the Board could drag
                                        it's heels on it indefinitely. 
                                        I would think that something
                                        reasonable would be having the
                                        vote initiated by our Executive
                                        Director within two weeks of the
                                        tabulation that found them to be
                                        not meeting their attendance
                                        requirements.  If there is a
                                        Board meeting during that
                                        window, then it could be handled
                                        then, or handled via the mailing
                                        list otherwise.  That provides
                                        time to handle the situation and
                                        removes any Board member bias
                                        from the initiation of the vote.</li>
                                      <li>This does not offer the
                                        offender an opportunity to
                                        explain why they failed to meet
                                        their attendance requirement.  I
                                        think that a reasonable process
                                        would assume that there is a
                                        rational explanation for why
                                        they did not attend.  Maybe it's
                                        because all of the meetings were
                                        being held at 2 AM in their
                                        timezone.  Maybe it's because of
                                        a death in the family.  I think
                                        this process should take the
                                        personal factor into
                                        consideration.</li>
                                    </ul>
                                  </span><p>Would you care to take a stab at
                                    addressing these?  If not, I can
                                    certainly take a shot at it as well.</p>
                                  <span><font color="#888888"><p>~josh<br>
                                      </p>
                                    </font></span></div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon,
                                        Aug 24, 2015 at 2:07 AM, Bil
                                        Corry <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bil.corry@owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:bil.corry@owasp.org" target="_blank">bil.corry@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                        wrote:<br>
                                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                            <div>Hi Josh,</div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>The current bylaw I see
                                              is from last year, which
                                              doesn't have the text you
                                              quoted.  It's here:</div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>     <a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Foundation_ByLaws" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Foundation_ByLaws" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Foundation_ByLaws</a></div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>I know we discussed
                                              changing the bylaws, but I
                                              don't know what was
                                              ultimately adopted.  FWIW,
                                              this is the wording from
                                              last proposed text, which
                                              is very clear on how
                                              tabulation is calculated,
                                              although it doesn't give
                                              strict time limes for
                                              tabulation and confidence
                                              voting.  The thought was
                                              to allow the Board some
                                              flexibility in how they
                                              want to execute it.  But
                                              if you'd like it to be
                                              formally incorporated into
                                              the bylaws, then please
                                              proposed some text.</div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div><p class="MsoNormal"><b>SECTION
                                                  3.03 Regular Meetings.</b>
                                                The Board of Directors
                                                shall have regular
                                                meetings as needed.  A
                                                link to the board
                                                meeting agenda’s and the
                                                historical minutes is
                                                here: <a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings</a><span>.</span>
                                                 Meetings shall be at
                                                such dates, times, and
                                                places as the Board
                                                shall determine in
                                                December of the
                                                preceding year and as
                                                amended by the Board. In
                                                no event will there be
                                                less than one meeting
                                                per quarter.  These
                                                meetings will be open to
                                                public attendance,
                                                however, certain
                                                portions of the meeting
                                                may be closed to board
                                                members  and their
                                                delegates when required
                                                for legal reasons, or to
                                                shield liability, or to
                                                handle personnel issues,
                                                or similar.  Attendance
                                                in person or virtually
                                                by board members is
                                                required at no less than
                                                75% of the total
                                                meetings each year and
                                                shall be highly
                                                encouraged to meet in
                                                person at least once
                                                annually at a date to be
                                                announced and agreed
                                                upon.  Attendance is
                                                tabulated after every
                                                scheduled meeting for
                                                the purpose of
                                                determining if the 75%
                                                attendance requirement
                                                has been met, and the
                                                tabulation is based upon
                                                the entire calendar
                                                year.  Cancelled
                                                meetings are considered
                                                attended for the
                                                purposes of the
                                                tabulation.  Failure by
                                                a board member to meet
                                                the 75% attendance
                                                requirement after any
                                                tabulation will cause a
                                                mandatory vote of <span>confidence</span>
                                                by the remaining board
                                                members, whose votes
                                                will be publicly
                                                recorded.  An overall
                                                vote of "no <span>confidence</span>"
                                                is recorded if half or
                                                more of the board
                                                members vote for it,
                                                which causes the board
                                                member in question to be
                                                instantly removed from
                                                their seat on the
                                                board.  Vacancies on the
                                                board are handled as per
                                                Section 3.10.<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"></span></p><div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><br></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><br></div><p class="MsoNormal"><s>2
                                                  OWASP Board of
                                                  Directors will hold
                                                  quarterly board
                                                  meetings lasting 4­6
                                                  hours each. The
                                                  schedule of meetings
                                                  will be set by the
                                                  board in December
                                                  before the year. It is
                                                  likely the the board
                                                  meetings will take
                                                  place on Saturdays or
                                                  on a dedicated day
                                                  before a large OWASP
                                                  conference. This
                                                  change is a result of
                                                  the success of the
                                                  longer format board
                                                  meeting and also a
                                                  result of the
                                                  Executive Director
                                                  role that has enabled
                                                  full time involvement
                                                  and focus on OWASP
                                                  operations. Board
                                                  members must attend
                                                  (in person or
                                                  virtually) 3 of the 4
                                                  meetings to fulfill
                                                  the attendance
                                                  requirements. This
                                                  will take effect in
                                                  January, 2014. Changes
                                                  passed August 19,
                                                  2013.</s></p>
                                              <span><p class="MsoNormal"><s>3
                                                    “and shall be highly
                                                    encouraged to meet
                                                    in person at least
                                                    once annually at a
                                                    date to be announced
                                                    and agreed upon”
                                                    amendment to
                                                    document passed June
                                                    10, 2013.</s></p>
                                              </span></div>
                                            <span><font color="#888888">
                                                <div><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>- Bil</div>
                                                <div><br>
                                                </div>
                                              </font></span></div>
                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                            <div class="gmail_quote">
                                              <div>
                                                <div>On Sat, Aug 22,
                                                  2015 at 6:01 PM, Josh
                                                  Sokol <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                  wrote:<br>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>Board,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        As recently
                                                        discussed and
                                                        voted on in a
                                                        separate thread,
                                                        our current
                                                        Bylaws state as
                                                        follows:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <span><i>Failure
                                                          by a board
                                                          member to meet
                                                          the 75%
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirement
                                                          after any
                                                          tabulation
                                                          will cause a
                                                          mandatory vote
                                                          of confidence
                                                          by the
                                                          remaining
                                                          board members,
                                                          whose votes
                                                          will be
                                                          publicly
                                                          recorded.  An
                                                          overall vote
                                                          of "no
                                                          confidence" is
                                                          recorded if
                                                          half or more
                                                          of the board
                                                          members vote
                                                          for it, which
                                                          causes the
                                                          board member
                                                          in question to
                                                          be instantly
                                                          removed from
                                                          their seat on
                                                          the board.</i></span><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      I see a few issues
                                                      with this:<br>
                                                      <ul>
                                                        <li>The
                                                          timeframe that
                                                          this applies
                                                          to is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          Is it per
                                                          quarter?  Per
                                                          calendar
                                                          year?  Over
                                                          the two year
                                                          duration of a
                                                          Board member
                                                          term?  Over
                                                          the cumulative
                                                          time that a
                                                          Board member
                                                          is in office? 
                                                          I'm guessing
                                                          that the
                                                          intent is for
                                                          this to be
                                                          over the
                                                          calendar year,
                                                          but if anyone
                                                          disagrees and
                                                          has a
                                                          different
                                                          interpretation,
                                                          please let me
                                                          know.</li>
                                                        <li>The
                                                          definition of
                                                          "tabulation"
                                                          is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          Who is doing
                                                          the
                                                          tabulation? 
                                                          Is there a
                                                          certain time
                                                          that this
                                                          tabulation is
                                                          conducted? 
                                                          I'm guessing
                                                          that the
                                                          intent is for
                                                          this to be
                                                          based on the
                                                          attendance
                                                          role that is
                                                          captured
                                                          during the
                                                          Board meeting,
                                                          but if anyone
                                                          disagrees and
                                                          has a
                                                          different
                                                          interpretation,
                                                          please let me
                                                          know.</li>
                                                        <li>The method
                                                          of tabulation
                                                          is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          If we are
                                                          tabulating
                                                          sequentially,
                                                          then we have a
                                                          situation
                                                          where if a
                                                          Board member
                                                          missed their
                                                          first meeting,
                                                          a vote is
                                                          required to be
                                                          held for three
                                                          tabulations
                                                          (0%, 50%, and
                                                          66%) until
                                                          they make it
                                                          up over 75%. 
                                                          I am guessing
                                                          that the
                                                          intent is for
                                                          this to be
                                                          tabulated
                                                          assuming
                                                          attendance for
                                                          all future
                                                          meetings and
                                                          action would
                                                          be taken if
                                                          the person
                                                          would be
                                                          unable to
                                                          maintain 75%
                                                          attendance,
                                                          but if anyone
                                                          disagrees and
                                                          has a
                                                          different
                                                          interpretation,
                                                          please let me
                                                          know.<br>
                                                        </li>
                                                        <li>The
                                                          timeframe for
                                                          the vote is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          It just says
                                                          that it will
                                                          cause a
                                                          mandatory vote
                                                          of confidence,
                                                          but never says
                                                          when that vote
                                                          is supposed to
                                                          take place or
                                                          who is
                                                          supposed to
                                                          initiate it. 
                                                          Is it to be
                                                          handled
                                                          immediately at
                                                          the time of
                                                          tabulation? 
                                                          Is it handled
                                                          offline over
                                                          e-mail as we
                                                          recently did? 
                                                          Is it handled
                                                          at the next
                                                          Board
                                                          meeting? 
                                                          Based on the
                                                          current
                                                          verbiage,
                                                          technically
                                                          the Board
                                                          could drag
                                                          it's heels on
                                                          it
                                                          indefinitely. 
                                                          I would think
                                                          that something
                                                          reasonable
                                                          would be
                                                          having the
                                                          vote initiated
                                                          by our
                                                          Executive
                                                          Director
                                                          within two
                                                          weeks of the
                                                          tabulation
                                                          that found
                                                          them to be not
                                                          meeting their
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirements. 
                                                          If there is a
                                                          Board meeting
                                                          during that
                                                          window, then
                                                          it could be
                                                          handled then,
                                                          or handled via
                                                          the mailing
                                                          list
                                                          otherwise. 
                                                          That provides
                                                          time to handle
                                                          the situation
                                                          and removes
                                                          any Board
                                                          member bias
                                                          from the
                                                          initiation of
                                                          the vote.<br>
                                                        </li>
                                                        <li>This does
                                                          not offer the
                                                          offender an
                                                          opportunity to
                                                          explain why
                                                          they failed to
                                                          meet their
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirement. 
                                                          I think that a
                                                          reasonable
                                                          process would
                                                          assume that
                                                          there is a
                                                          rational
                                                          explanation
                                                          for why they
                                                          did not
                                                          attend.  Maybe
                                                          it's because
                                                          all of the
                                                          meetings were
                                                          being held at
                                                          2 AM in their
                                                          timezone. 
                                                          Maybe it's
                                                          because of a
                                                          death in the
                                                          family.  I
                                                          think this
                                                          process should
                                                          take the
                                                          personal
                                                          factor into
                                                          consideration.<br>
                                                        </li>
                                                      </ul><p>With the above
                                                        in mind, I don't
                                                        see a reason to
                                                        lower the bar
                                                        from 75%.  My
                                                        thinking is that
                                                        this is a
                                                        reasonable
                                                        expectation to
                                                        have of a Board
                                                        member with all
                                                        things being
                                                        equal.  It may
                                                        not be the best
                                                        measure of
                                                        engagement, but
                                                        it is still a
                                                        responsibility
                                                        that all Board
                                                        members are
                                                        aware of going
                                                        into it, and I
                                                        am not aware of
                                                        it having been
                                                        an issue in the
                                                        past (until
                                                        now), so I'm not
                                                        sure why we
                                                        would change it
                                                        now that one
                                                        Board member had
                                                        a vote initiated
                                                        for it.  I would
                                                        propose that we
                                                        update the
                                                        language in
                                                        order to better
                                                        clarify my
                                                        bullet points
                                                        above, but leave
                                                        the requirement
                                                        itself in
                                                        place.  Please
                                                        provide your
                                                        thoughts
                                                        regarding each
                                                        of these bullet
                                                        points (or any
                                                        other issues
                                                        that you think
                                                        need to be
                                                        addressed
                                                        here).  Once we
                                                        have some level
                                                        of agreement
                                                        with these, I
                                                        can take the
                                                        action item of
                                                        re-writing this
                                                        section of the
                                                        Bylaws in order
                                                        to incorporate
                                                        these changes. 
                                                        Thanks.</p>
                                                      <span><font color="#888888"><p>~josh<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                        </font></span></div>
                                                    <br>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <span>_______________________________________________<br>
                                                  Owasp-board mailing
                                                  list<br>
                                                  <a href="mailto:Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank">Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                                                  <a href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board" target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board</a><br>
                                                  <br>
                                                </span></blockquote>
                                            </div>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Governance mailing list<br>
                      <a href="mailto:Governance@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank">Governance@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                      <a href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/governance" target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/governance</a><br>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
Governance mailing list
<a href="mailto:Governance@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank">Governance@lists.owasp.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/governance" target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/governance</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre cols="72">-- 
Jim Manico
Global Board Member
OWASP Foundation
<a href="https://www.owasp.org/" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org</a>
Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!</pre>
  </div>

</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>