[Owasp-website] Forums (yes, I'm bringing this up)
Tom Brennan
tomb at owasp.org
Thu Jun 30 14:35:04 EDT 2011
Jive update was:
http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/try-jive
Then let's talk about next steps.
Semper Fi,
Tom Brennan
Tel: 973-202-0122
On Jun 30, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Mark Bristow <mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:
> I think it's a good model as well. Do we want to estabolish any additional criteria and/or look at any other platforms?
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Jason Li <jason.li at owasp.org> wrote:
> First step - we need Matt to give Larry some credentials/VMs on Rackspace.
>
> Second step - Tom was going to follow up with Jive to try and get us some discount pricing. Dave had also expressed a willingness to do so.
>
> Third step - setup an instance of Jive and a sample forum/mailing list to see what it can do and if it works the way we want it
>
> Fourth step - figure out a migration process:
>
> a) What to do about mailman archives? As a side note, I discovered yesterday that the mailman archives are not complete --- I noticed (and Larry confirmed) that a whole thread was completely missing from the archive. That probably isn't the only thread that has gone missing... Will want to try and recover/migrate existing archives? (personal preference is yes)
>
> b) Setup forums to match up existing mailing lists
>
> c) Run in "transparent mode" (made up term by me to indicate trial basis) for awhile to show that it's working
>
> d) Once we're confident it's working, announce full cut over
>
> Fifth Step - celebrate over drinks!
>
> Obviously there are lots of little details in between, but I think that's the general model.
>
> -Jason
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Mark Bristow <mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:
> So what do we need to do to move a test platform forward?
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Laurence Casey <larry.casey at owasp.org> wrote:
> Agree, but like I said, not to many people.
>
>
>
> How many people decided to use Mailman in the beginning? 1
>
> How many people decided to use Mediawiki? I think 3 or 4
>
>
>
> It’s been 5+ years like this and very successful.
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>
>
> In a room full of 30+ people talking about Forum’s vs. mailing lists, we could not come to an agreement. No movement on the project has been made since.
>
>
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> I don’t really want to get involved in debating which direction to go. More interested in getting things done. I’m not set on Jive, but it does everything everybody was asking for, what do we need to sell to everyone?
>
>
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> From: Mark Bristow [mailto:mark.bristow at owasp.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:28 AM
> To: Laurence Casey
> Cc: Rohit Sethi; Rory McCune; owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Owasp-website] Forums (yes, I'm bringing this up)
>
>
> Gotta get the customer butyin
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Laurence Casey <larry.casey at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> For me, Jive was a replacement for the mailing list and had other features that met the requirements of the coding projects.
>
>
>
> I agree with Mark that this would be a test run. As for getting everybody and their mothers involved, not so sure. The more people you have involved the more likely we will end up where we are now. A small group of people evaluating the products will probably work best. We provide the platform and the people will come no matter what we use.
>
>
>
> --Larry
>
>
>
> From: Rohit Sethi [mailto:rklists at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:54 AM
> To: Mark Bristow
> Cc: Laurence Casey; Rory McCune; owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Owasp-website] Forums (yes, I'm bringing this up)
>
>
>
> How about opening a project in Google code or GitHub and using their bug tracker?
>
>
>
> Also, I'd like to propose that we explicitly prioritize which audiences we are building the site for:
>
> For example:
>
> 1. Developers who want to learn about application security basics
>
> 2. Developers who are looking for tools to build secure applications
>
> 3. Developers / testers who are looking to test their applications for security
>
> 4. Application security professionals looking to contribute
>
> etc.
>
>
>
> When it comes to prioritizing what to work on first, we should always think about the order of priority in terms of target audience.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Mark Bristow <mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> I think it might be better to gather some more requirements, get a couple of options and test them before we go off selecting a platform. It takes a little more time but it's my experience that this process gets better buy in and ensures all requirements are met (or at least documented). As far as I know we havent' even documented all of the requirements/asks yet.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Laurence Casey <larry.casey at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> I did speak with Jive about the entire product and it WILL do everything we have wanted. I myself am on several lists that use this product and its perfect. The problem is that I needed somebody like Tom to negotiate a deal with them. That is not my area of expertise and would most likely screw that up.
>
>
>
> --Larry
>
>
>
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>
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> From: owasp-website-bounces at lists.owasp.org [mailto:owasp-website-bounces at lists.owasp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Brennan
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:52 PM
> To: Mark Bristow; Rory McCune; Jason Li
> Cc: owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
> Subject: Re: [Owasp-website] Forums (yes, I'm bringing this up)
>
>
>
> "Expensive" is what i call my wife's shopping trips to the mall when i am traveling.. don't be discouraged by cost at this stage of this massive project, lets find the best solution possible today break it up via committee focus and consumer requirements -- that will likely change again in 2-5 years... like any good project we gather our requirements and costs to determine if they are in fact operational costs that the business will accept as cost of business that happens to be a non-profit... so lets never confuse the NON-PROFIT with FREE as these two words are NOT associated in the real world and taboo to any commercial business that is having someone asking for anything free.
>
> The real value is in barter-in-trade just as we have different categories on our website: https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Membership#Current_OWASP_Organization_Supporters_.26_Individual_Members (Salesforce and Aspect) this list will also include shortly include Akamai, Rackspace and others that understand the global value of working with our professional association however.
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Mark Bristow <mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> The forum integration and mail settings seem to do exactly what we want (you can receive threads and reply via email) it would just be about posting all the old stuff.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Jason Li <jason.li at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> My understanding is that it's expensive... I spoke with Larry and he indicated that they do have special pricing for non-profit but that he has not had the time to pursue it.
>
>
>
> If that's something you want to take on, I think that would be a great thing to push forward! Hopefully we can convince them to host the service as well, but even if it's just providing the software for free or discounted rate and we host it, that's a huge plus!
>
>
>
> Otherwise, we'll have to do a trial or something and consider some kind of funding support model (advertisement placement in forums?).
>
>
>
> -Jason
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Rory McCune <rory.mccune at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Yep I had a look as well, and it looked like a pretty neat solution. The first question would likely be to get an idea of cost, as (as far as I could see) that's not listed anywhere on the website. Hopefully they'll have special pricing for non-profit organisations...
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Mark Bristow <mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> I've only taken a cursory look at Jive, but it might work well.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Jason Li <jason.li at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> I have a separate thread with Larry about setting up a VM to stage forums. The research he did a few months back suggests Jive may be a good compromise to merge mailing lists with forums.
>
>
>
> Will follow up with him when I get back to the States.
>
>
>
> -Jason
>
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Rory McCune <rory.mccune at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:20 PM, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman <buanzo at buanzo.com.ar> wrote:
>
> On 06/15/2011 06:49 PM, Mark Bristow wrote:
> > I think it's time we finally got real about forums. I can't believe that there isn't some software
> > out there that could take our Mailman database, convert it all over to forums by thread (as ugly as
> > it might be), make user acconts for everyone who has signed up, provide them temproary passwords and
> > do mail integration moving forward.
> >
> > There are a number of web designers/developers at OWASP I say we stand up a test area and just start
> > mucking around till it works, document it, test it, and transition.
>
> We could probably get hypermail or something like that to read the mailman mbox archives. Those
> tools already split by thread. Then we just hook ourselves to, instead of create an html archive,
> inject to a mybb/phpbb/whateverwechoose forum database accordingly. Also, I'd just use a fake
> account for these imported messages, and just keep them as reference, and have NEW discussions be
> created by real forum accounts (probably linked to an @owasp.org account?).
>
>
>
> It'd be good to sort something out for forums. The challenge I've seen from reading previous threads on this (IIRC) is that there's a desire for a solution which allows for people to have both forums style access and mailing list style access at the same time (roughly the way that Yahoo Groups works). I think that if we could solve that problem, then as Arturo says, it would just be a question of sorting out a one-time import process, to populate the archives.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Rory
>
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>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
> mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - https://www.appsecdc.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
> mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - https://www.appsecdc.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
> mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - https://www.appsecdc.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-website mailing list
> Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rohit Sethi
> SD Elements
> http://www.sdelements.com
> twitter: rksethi
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
> mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - https://www.appsecdc.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
> mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - https://www.appsecdc.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-website mailing list
> Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
> mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - https://www.appsecdc.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-website mailing list
> Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website
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