[Committees-chairs] [Owasp-board] FW: Citrix Online Proposal, Cost Comparison & Subscription Agreements

[Jason Li]

All,

There are two services being offered here and I want to address each one
separately as (1) I see no need to view these together and (2) I believe
we're confusing the two when thinking about cost savings.

First with regards to Citrix Online Audio - which would be a replacement for
our current conference bridge services:
* I didn't see the quote of "6,000 minutes per quarter" captured anywhere in
the service agreement or the proposal?

* The way I read the service description of this service: "Only solution
that seamlessly integrates with GoToMeeting, GoToWebinar and GoToTraining
allowing you to offer a toll free ­option in addition to free toll­based
telephone and VoIP audio conferencing already provided at no cost in
GoToMeeting, GoToWebinar and GoToTraining. You’re only charged a per minute
rate for the callers dialing the toll­free option." The wording seems
intentionally ambiguous because it's again mixing the GoToMeeting option
with the Citrix Online Audio option.

The Citrix Online Audio option has features that would be valuable for our
conference calls (moderator mode, lecture mode, recording, etc) which do not
seem to included with GoToMeeting. The description of the Citrix Online
Audio service above implies that the toll-based telephone options (i.e.
local international numbers) are part of GoToMeeting, while Citrix Online
Audio "adds" the ability of toll-free telephone options (which would
presumably be charged against the allowance of 6,000 minutes).

I would like to understand what Citrix Online Audio would provide and cost
*separate* from GoToMeeting (for example, if we did not get the GoToMeeting
service):
C1) Are there local toll numbers with Citrix Audio? If so
   a) Is there a different pricing for using local toll vs local toll-free
dial in numbers with Citrix Online Audio? What is the respective price? I
see $0.07/minute - but is that for using local toll numbers? Local toll-free
numbers? Is it the same price regardless?
   b) Are all used Citrix Online Audio minutes get charged against our
allowance of 6,000 minutes? Just toll-free minutes?
   c) Are all Citrix Audio Online meeting features (recording, moderating,
etc) available regardless of how someone "dials-in" (i.e. local toll, toll
free)?
   d) What countries we would have local toll dial in numbers with Citrix
Online Audio?
C2) What countries do we have local toll-free dial in numbers with Citrix
Online Audio?
C3) Do minutes rollover?
C4) How many phone lines do we get with Citrix Online Audio? It sounds like
only one? Would there be additional commitment if we wanted more than one
line available? Realistically, I don't think we need more than one since I'm
not aware of any times when we've had concurrent usage of conference
bridges?

Here are the differences I see to Citrix Online Audio over our current
AccessOnline account:
A) Citrix Online Audio gives us a better rate per minute ($0.07) at the cost
of committing to at least 6,000 minutes per quarter (6,000 minutes @
$420/quarter is still the same $0.07/minute rate). The "commitment" does
make a difference based on historical usage. In times of non-usage, we still
have to pay so the expected cost savings may not be as high as envisioned
(see attached spreadsheet for a better illustration of ROI). Still, since
the Summit, our usage has increased dramatically now that Chairs have been
asked to attend Board calls, so usage will probably not be a problem.
B) Citrix Online Audio has moderator controls and call recording
C) AccessOnline gives us five open lines billed for usage only, while Citrix
Online Audio gives us ?? lines with a required usage commitment of $420 (per
line?).  (**Note I believe that Citrix Online Audio lines are different than
the five meeting rooms with GoToMeeting**)

Separately, for GoToMeeting - the audio option sounds a lot better from a
pricing perspective (free), but it does not seem to be feature rich. To
clarify specifically in regards to GoToMeeting audio options:
G1) Are advanced call features (e.g. moderator controls, recording, lecture
mode) available on audio bridges conducted through GoToMeeting?
G2) What countries do we have local toll numbers with GoToMeeting audio?
Presumably usage of these numbers is unlimited and free?
G3) Through GoToMeeting alone, is there any way to have toll-free dial in
numbers?
G4) Is it possible to use dial in audio numbers without an online meeting
session? In other words, does the meeting organizer have to run an online
meeting session in order to have an active audio bridge?
G5) Do folks who dial into a GoToMeeting audio bridge but do not join the
online meeting session show up in the meeting organizer's console?

In terms of "seamless integration" of the two:
I1) Can you simultaneously use a GoToMeeting audio bridge with a Citrix
Online Audio bridge? Or is it simply "integrating" the video feed of
GoToMeeting with the audio feed of a Citrix Online Audio bridge?
I2) If both audios are "combined":
   a) How does minute usage get calculated? Are all minutes charged against
the 6,000 minute balance? Only those that use the Citrix Online Audio
bridge?
   b) Are all of the advanced control features (e.g. moderator controls,
recording, lecture mode) available in the "combined" bridge?

The reason I ask all these questions is because we seem to have several
goals:
* Save money
* Get call recordings and better moderation control on calls
* Provide International dial in numbers
* Enable video feed/screen sharing

GoToMeeting and Citrix Online Audio are distinctly different products.

As a drop in replacement for AccessOnline, GoToMeeting (without the Citrix
Online Audio service) sounds like it could save money ($2,460/year with
unlimited phone conferencing if we understand correctly), but without any
improvement over our current calling control.

Citrix Online Audio service provides moderation controls, but it's not clear
how it combines/interacts with GoToMeeting.

While individually, the two services satisfy some of these goals, I'm not
sure that when combined they actually satisfy all the goals. Usually the
whole is greater than the sum of its parts, but in this case getting both
services will cost more (which cuts into goal #1) and when combining the
services, it might not give us all the features we want (specifically goal
#2).

At that point, it comes down to priority. Is it a higher priority to have
call recordings/moderation controls or video feed? Or do the services work
well enough together and we're willing to expend the greater cost to have
both?

My personal opinion is that call recordings and moderation controls are more
important than video feed. For the moment, services like Big Blue Button,
Skype, Google Hangout, etc can probably suffice for video feeds for our
current usage scenarios? But I think audio recording and moderation is
fairly important given the way our calls have grown.

As a result, I would personally opt for just the Citrix Audio Online service
as a replacement for AccessOnline.

I know we want to provide services for OWASP at large though so my
suggestion would be to get one online meeting room for the Chapters
Committee for now so they can trial it out and see if it's worthwhile to
have multiple ones later on?

-Jason

P.S. Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness like narrative analysis... I'm on
vacation :)

On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Kate Hartmann <kate.hartmann at owasp.org>wrote:

> Board and Committee Chairs,****
>
> ** **
>
> Please take a few minutes to look over the attached documents.  If
> possible, can I get your feedback today?  No feedback by Monday will be, by
> default considered approval.****
>
> ** **
>
> Kate Hartmann****
>
> Operations Director****
>
> 301-275-9403****
>
> www.owasp.org ****
>
> Skype:  Kate.hartmann1****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Casey Rogers [mailto:Casey.Rogers at Citrix.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, September 09, 2011 11:15 AM
> *To:* Kate Hartmann
> *Subject:* Citrix Online Proposal, Cost Comparison & Subscription
> Agreements
> *Importance:* High****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Kate,****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for speaking with again earlier.  As mentioned the end date for
> these offers is September 14th so I wanted to get you the agreements for
> execution as soon as possible.  That being said, attached are the
> following documents:****
>
> ** **
>
> **1)     **Updated proposal ****
>
> **2)     **Cost comparison between Accessline and Citrix Online Audio
> (shows savings based on historical minutes used, and cost savings with
> projected minute usage going forward with Citrix Online Audio)****
>
> **3)     **Web conferencing agreement (first 1 month free to offset our
> one-time setup fee)****
>
> **4)     **Audio services agreement****
>
> **5)     **Audio services quarterly commitment addendum ****
>
> ** **
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions, otherwise I look forward to
> speaking with you again at 4 PM.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Best Regards,****
>
> Casey Rogers****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> *Casey Rogers |* Corporate Sales
> *Citrix Online Division*
>
> Citrix Systems, Inc.
> 14 Crosby Drive****
>
> Bedford, MA  01730 USA
> www.citrixonline.com
>
> Phone: 781-999-9910
> Fax: 781-301-7986
> Email: casey.rogers at citrix.com
>
> www.gotomeeting.com | Online Meetings Made Easy
> www.gotowebinar.com | Webinars Made Easy****
>
> www.gototraining.com | Online Training Made Easy****
>
> www.gotoassist.com | Remote Support Made Easy****
>
> www.gotomanage.com | Network Monitoring Made Easy****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *Citrix Online Rated Best Overall Web Conferencing Experience by Users,
> Again, According to Wainhouse Research<http://www.citrixonline.com/pr/pressRelease.tmpl?FileID=082510>
> *****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-board mailing list
> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>
>
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